Serious Q's To Trump Supporters (or those on the fence for Trump)

[admo]

zoogs, I appreciate it. I don't think it's lip service. Which means I don't have to hope it's not. I am aware of his previous thoughts, but as he stated, he has changed his views on it for what I consider the better. How he views it today is more important that the past.

 

Point me in a direction that you think would be helpful. For a few questions I should ask myself or consider, since that is the topic, that might send me over the fence. I am willing to read, listen and try to understand. But please keep all shame and hate speech articles away. It's a big turn off.

[Fru]

 

 

I have a difficult time being thought of as a Trump supporter. So many flaws, but yes I am on the fence.

 

To answer your questions:

1. Who do you respect enough, that if they took a strong public stance against Trump you would listen and reconsider? Too many to list that I respect, but wouldn't change my stance.

2. Is there anything that he could say or do between now and election day to change your support of him? Short answer: No, not really. It's deeper than that.

 

And this is why I will eventually vote for him.

 

Trump is pro-life and supports the partial-birth abortion ban act. His list of conservative judges that he would consider for Supreme Court are all pro-life.

Hilary is for Roe vs Wade, and supports the partial-birth abortion procedure. She will only nominate judges for the Supreme Court that are not pro-life.

Trump's VP Pence is solid pro-life and votes for the partial-birth abortion ban act.

Hilary's VP Kaine votes against pro-life by supporting abortion, including late abortions.

　

The partial birth abortion procedure from the 5th month on pulls the living baby out of the womb by the feet, except for the head, puncturing the skull and suctioning out the brain.

Stats

Over One Million abortions are reported per year.

Roughly 17% of abortions are teenagers, 57% of women in their 20's, and 26% of women over 30 years of age through 44 years old. Which means, 83% of abortion procedures are being done by women between 20-44.

1% of all abortions performed have been reported as survivors of rape.

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/abortion-statistics/

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/u-s-abortion-statistics-by-year-1973-current-1042

http://www.nrlc.org/uploads/2016POTUScomparison.pdf

So you see, it's not so much that I think he would be the best president ever!1, nor do I think anyone of remarkable influence that I respect could change my mind before voting. The older I get, hopefully the more wiser I become. I may not have made the best out of my life, but I was given a chance, just like y'all. And the best thing I can do is to stand up for the innocent, for the soon-to-be born, the one's who need our help (adults) - so that they get the opportunity to a life just like you and I - and not be snuffed out so quickly.

As hard as it may be to cast that vote for Donald, tell me, who is so wise to tell me I should reconsider and vote against what I stand for? I will at least listen.

 

See this is where I take issue with lots of Pro Lifers.

 

Many (not saying you specifically, but many) Pro Lifers profess to be all about caring for the "ones who can't protect themselves" and that "every life is sacred." That's all well and good for a zygote, however when it comes to other issues concerning life and well being, Pro Lifers are often times anti universal healthcare, anti common sense gun control laws, pro war, anti public assistance programs which largely benefit children, the disabled and the elderly, anti regulation, and against Environmental Protection laws.

 

You claim to be on the fence about this election because of your stance on abortion. Trump has often times questioned why other countries don't have and use nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons. That is literally the most deadly force the world has ever seen. But your biggest concern is someone's private choice to take the Plan B pill? You're genuinely considering someone who encourages use of the deadliest weapons on earth, but might vote for him because he is against abortion? That does not compute with me.

 

I can very much appreciate someone's stance against abortion. Don't get me wrong. It's certainly not a fun topic. But abortion isn't going to matter a whole lot when Nukes are being launched across the globe.

 

I understand, most do (take issue) so don't feel like you are the first. For you and many, you make a strong case and I do my best to listen and try to understand where you are coming from.

 

So let me clarify my thoughts if I may. (Abortion) It's not only a deep concern about the soon-to-be born that get wiped out. It's also a deep concern for the women - the mothers - that deal with their decision after the procedure, especially down the road. Many women are able to collect themselves, put it behind them and move on. I've heard their stories. I also hear the stories of the countless women who experience such grief, a loss, a pit, an emptiness, a sadness, that leads to a rooted deep, dark depression that they live with each day for years and years and years. And for some, their entire life. The decision can be so regretful and painful for so many that it's almost like two lives have died (unborn and mother). Sure the woman is still alive physically, but that's about all that's left behind. And for other women though, they go through the procedure a second time, even a third time. The numbers for that is staggering too. All in all, over 50 million abortions performed in our country since the 70's. To me that involves 100 million that is affected by this decision (counting the moms as I mentioned).

 

I agree there are many other topics, including the one's you mention, that are very important to our country, and to me. There are views I like about the Dems, and views I don't, just like with the Rep party. No matter who becomes the POTUS, this person will not be able to please everybody. It has never happened before.

 

I understand that my stance doesn't make a lot of sense to you as you try to compute it all. I am okay with that. I am not too complex, nor am I a bright, sophisticated or brilliant political thinker as so many here are. No matter how much I read and try to absorb on this political forum! Maybe that is why we have such smart people voting that understand more than I am able to understand about every important topic out there. But I will tell you this.... I will do my part as well by voting for lives as a start. Abortion is the opposite of life. And abortion ALWAYS matters.

 

I appreciate your response, and the mature discourse we can have. My initial point was largely about how many profess to be Pro Life when it comes to abortion, but for many other issues regarding life and well being, they seem to care very little. Some genuine cognitive dissonance there with many folks.

 

I know abortion is a deep issue for many people. Like I mentioned before, it's not a fun topic. It can certainly be a devastating experience for a person. I'd like to think that we as a society would be able to move past it as a form of birth control and reserve it for instances of rape and threat to life of the mother. I think that can be done with education and access to birth control, however that's a different discussion.

 

Regarding this election and how it relates to abortion my second point was to look at the big picture. Like I mentioned before, Trump is an advocate for the promotion and use of nuclear weapons. If you are truly concerned about loss of life it does not get any bigger or more devastating than nuclear weapons.

[admo]

Thanks Fru, I understand completely. Definitely something to really consider (that I should).

[admo]

By the way, I do not want to tie down this topic. There must be several people on the board that are on the fence and would like to speak up? I think it would be good to put it out there and maybe find out if there really is a better option or not to help with a tough decision. Fence doesn't have to be limited to Donald I wouldn't think? So many of us don't even want to vote. Maybe try to talk your way into it (jumping off the fence and standing behind someone, and to vote)?

[TGHusker]

 

 

I also would turn the same questions around and ask any Hillary supporter, how, can you vote for such a corrupt, untruthful, untrustworthy person as she has demonstrate to be over an entire career and who has accomplished very little in her career other than gathering Titles after hanging onto Bill's coattails.

 

In an election like this, I'll take someone who's already been in the White House for 8 years, been a Senator and been Secretary of State. That experience matters.

 

I think Ted Cruz is one of the most repugnant humans alive, but I would not hesitate in picking him over Trump as well. I am not a fan of Hillary at all. But when you only have 2 choices... I'd begrudgingly go with her for 4 years, and hope for a much better choice in 2020.

 

You are correct in saying we are voting for the lessor of 2 evils. The decision: which one is the lessor? I find them both equally repugnant but as you note - Hillary has the 'experience'. So the question becomes: what value is the experience. Most likely she will be 'status quo' of the last 8 years and if you are OK with no to little change than she is the pick.

Yes, lets hope for a much better choice in 2020. Even if Trump gets elected, I hope for the sake of everyone on the planet it would only be a 4 year situation - I could not see him running a 2nd time. I think he would brag about what he accomplished (even if it was destructive) and go back to the private sector.

[HuskermanMike]

 

 

 

I have a difficult time being thought of as a Trump supporter. So many flaws, but yes I am on the fence.

 

To answer your questions:

1. Who do you respect enough, that if they took a strong public stance against Trump you would listen and reconsider? Too many to list that I respect, but wouldn't change my stance.

2. Is there anything that he could say or do between now and election day to change your support of him? Short answer: No, not really. It's deeper than that.

 

And this is why I will eventually vote for him.

 

Trump is pro-life and supports the partial-birth abortion ban act. His list of conservative judges that he would consider for Supreme Court are all pro-life.

Hilary is for Roe vs Wade, and supports the partial-birth abortion procedure. She will only nominate judges for the Supreme Court that are not pro-life.

Trump's VP Pence is solid pro-life and votes for the partial-birth abortion ban act.

Hilary's VP Kaine votes against pro-life by supporting abortion, including late abortions.

　

The partial birth abortion procedure from the 5th month on pulls the living baby out of the womb by the feet, except for the head, puncturing the skull and suctioning out the brain.

Stats

Over One Million abortions are reported per year.

Roughly 17% of abortions are teenagers, 57% of women in their 20's, and 26% of women over 30 years of age through 44 years old. Which means, 83% of abortion procedures are being done by women between 20-44.

1% of all abortions performed have been reported as survivors of rape.

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/abortion-statistics/

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/u-s-abortion-statistics-by-year-1973-current-1042

http://www.nrlc.org/uploads/2016POTUScomparison.pdf

So you see, it's not so much that I think he would be the best president ever!1, nor do I think anyone of remarkable influence that I respect could change my mind before voting. The older I get, hopefully the more wiser I become. I may not have made the best out of my life, but I was given a chance, just like y'all. And the best thing I can do is to stand up for the innocent, for the soon-to-be born, the one's who need our help (adults) - so that they get the opportunity to a life just like you and I - and not be snuffed out so quickly.

As hard as it may be to cast that vote for Donald, tell me, who is so wise to tell me I should reconsider and vote against what I stand for? I will at least listen.

 

See this is where I take issue with lots of Pro Lifers.

 

Many (not saying you specifically, but many) Pro Lifers profess to be all about caring for the "ones who can't protect themselves" and that "every life is sacred." That's all well and good for a zygote, however when it comes to other issues concerning life and well being, Pro Lifers are often times anti universal healthcare, anti common sense gun control laws, pro war, anti public assistance programs which largely benefit children, the disabled and the elderly, anti regulation, and against Environmental Protection laws.

 

You claim to be on the fence about this election because of your stance on abortion. Trump has often times questioned why other countries don't have and use nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons. That is literally the most deadly force the world has ever seen. But your biggest concern is someone's private choice to take the Plan B pill? You're genuinely considering someone who encourages use of the deadliest weapons on earth, but might vote for him because he is against abortion? That does not compute with me.

 

I can very much appreciate someone's stance against abortion. Don't get me wrong. It's certainly not a fun topic. But abortion isn't going to matter a whole lot when Nukes are being launched across the globe.

 

That is a big generalization, I don't think gun control has anything to do with abortion or killing. Take em away, people will still find ways to get them and kill people, its just how it is. Also, where are these "pro war" claims you get, was it President Bush's decision that all of a sudden speaks for every pro life person? Only congress can declared war not Trump, that is also something a lot of people forget about. Bush declared war with the approval of Congress, if Trump wanted to just attack some country because he has the power, congress has to approve it. The last thing before I get back on topic is abortion is taking away someones chance of life liberty and pursuit of happiness.

 

I am voting Trump because he is pro-life, pro America, he isn't a globalist which is really good. The UN has tried to pass laws to limit our freedom actually, can't remember what they are called exactly but it limits how much water or electricity one can use, not a bad idea but that is an example of taking away a little bit of freedom. I think his trade deals will help us get money back and force other countries to pay tariffs like the US does. Also make companies that leave the country pay a fine is a good idea or a leaving fee can't remember exactly. Regardless that's a good way to keep companies and jobs in the US. Only way I don't vote for him is if he changes his stances on immigration, abortion or he says he won't fight for the people- so basically it would be hard for me to change my mind.

 

Gun control has nothing to do with killing? 30,000 deaths a year from guns. If it were anything else causing that amount of deaths per year, it would certainly be addressed. But using your logic of "take guns away, people will still get them" one could argue that "making abortion illegal won't matter because people will still do it"

 

Many Pro Lifers tend to be Republican, and many Republicans are very pro war. Cheney, Kristol, McCain, Graham etc. I was talking about having Pro War attitudes, not necessarily declaring war.

 

You say Trump is Pro Life? Wanting to use nuclear weapons more often does not sound Pro Life to me.

 

Also, this is how Trump treated family members health care coverage. I wonder how much he would truly care about the average joe.

 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/what-sort-of-man-is-donald-trump

"Even when it comes to a sick baby in his family, Donald Trump is all business. The megabuilder and his siblings Robert and Maryanne terminated their nephew’s family medical coverage a week after he challenged the will of their father, Fred Trump. “This was so shocking, so disappointing and so vindictive,” said niece Lisa Trump, whose son, William, was born 18 months ago at Mount Sinai Medical Center with a rare neurological disorder that produces violent seizures, brain damage and medical bills topping $300,000."

 

Doesn't sound very Pro Life to me.

 

Companies that leave the US? Like ... the companies that make Donald Trump Signature ties? Those kinds of companies?

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHoYbfOWwAE2eCO.jpg

 

Two wrongs don't make a right dude. Yeah if abortion is outlawed people would still do it, but it would have consequences. I also meant to say gun control doesn't have anything to do with abortion or killing of babies, I typed too fast on that one. The gun obviously does the killing we all know, but it is the intent of the person who kills also, so taking away guns will not stop killing period. It also prevents someone from defending themself in an attack by a thief etc. You are still generalizing on the pro war attitude man, but yes republican leaders may be pro war, that does not make every republican a war hawk. Trumps only war he would do is get rid of terrorists in the middle east, oh we are doing that right now with our current president. Only time he would use nuclear warfare is if someone else attacked, he says he just wants to be ready in case north korea were to use them. Overseas stuff, yea some of his merchandise is overseas but he says he will make a fee for companies leaving the US, because lots of stuff today is made in China, we all can agree with that.

 

Back the Op, It would take something like him saying his voters are tools for his agenda for me not to vote for him. If he says that this election is over, but people will still vote for him. Ted Cruz said he supports Mr. Trump so I do as well. The Bush's have no impact on me about what they say or who they say they are voting for. I am voting for him more so on an Anti-Hillary type of voting, but he has some good things he says. I will admit he has said some really dumb stuff, but I think Hillary is worse and she will only allow terrorism to grow her and abroad.

[NM11046]

By the way, I do not want to tie down this topic. There must be several people on the board that are on the fence and would like to speak up? I think it would be good to put it out there and maybe find out if there really is a better option or not to help with a tough decision. Fence doesn't have to be limited to Donald I wouldn't think? So many of us don't even want to vote. Maybe try to talk your way into it (jumping off the fence and standing behind someone, and to vote)?

Admo I really appreciate the dialogue here - thank you!

 

I think with this election it's been pretty polarizing ... not sure that many people will admit to being on the fence - it seems most have fallen pretty soundly into one camp or the other (or the independent vote). And to your point, there are a lot of folks who are so frustrated they don't feel like or won't vote. I wish there was a way to get them involved here in this discussion, as this thread seems to (so far) be cordial and interactive.

 

I wish more people were like you and were considering the issues and stances of the candidates - I can respect that whether we agree or not. I think what astounds me with this election, is that so many people are focused and voting on rumors, innuendos, name calling, dirt digging and etc instead of qualifications, stances on the issues, history of service, plans for specific issues etc.

[NM11046]

 

 

Not a Trump supporter but I dont see that because anyone be it a celebrity or someone with that kind of status should be able to sway someones vote simply because of that status. Just like all the media touting who movie stars are for, in my mind who the F cares who they are voting for and if that is what sways your decision then you should be voting anyway.

Jusy my 2 cents

I was referring more to all the politicians, government officials and average Americans who have spoken up. Not celebrity.

I wouldnt trust a politician as far as I could throw one myself so those guys would be moot in most cases. As for the others i would say it would be how well does this person follow political candidates. Would i listen to them? Sure but would i base my vote of their beliefs? Not a chance. You would probably find the same answer by asking yourself your question when voting for Hillary. The same disgust you have for Trump is their same Disgust for her and how would those people you mention sway you crom voting that lady.

 

In my opinion they are both dumpster fires.

 

Fair enough - the candidates are both messes for sure.

 

To your point, I wouldn't base my vote on someone else's beliefs, but I do value dialogue and hearing why someone thinks the way that they do and what they prioritize. It may not change my opinion, but I appreciate the education so I can make a better decision based on my own beliefs. The key for me is a calm, rational, fact based discussion on issues - not the rumor, scandal, dirt throwing fights that seem to be the norm with this election. I just wish we could get beyond the screaming matches about emails and the lack of taxes and dig into the issues and the candidates' plans.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I'm one of the ones on the fence. I'm either going to vote for Trump or I'm not. I know I'm not voting for Hilary, I was a registered democrat and changed it to independent this past spring. Obama's second term in office really soured me towards him and I voted for him both times. The divide that's been created in the country is partially because of him IMO and all I see in Hilary is more of the same and I will not vote for that. I know there are several folks who won't agree with that and that's okay, but that's my opinion on things.

 

I have personal knowledge of the way Hilary treats people and her thoughts towards law enforcement. Being a law enforcement officer I can not and will not vote for someone who doesn't like us no matter what she is saying now. With 15 years in this career and 3 of those being on a SWAT team I had the luxury of providing dignitary protection several times and have spoken with enough Secret Service Agents to know where there is smoke there is fire with her. The fact that she brought up the Charlotte shooting as being wrong the other night for the debates was the final nail in the coffin for me in reference to her.

 

Then I listen to Trump speak and I'm like, "Whoa!" "Clean it up dude!" So the next two debates are going to be huge for me. I'm not going to vote for him because he's not Hilary, I'll keep my butt at home and say forget it, but that kinda sucks too. Johnson is a weirdo and I disagree with some of his positions at this point.

[Danny Bateman]

Expound upon your feelings about Trump, BRI. What do you think are the pros and cons for him?

[HuskerNation1]

I'm one of the ones on the fence. I'm either going to vote for Trump or I'm not. I know I'm not voting for Hilary, I was a registered democrat and changed it to independent this past spring. Obama's second term in office really soured me towards him and I voted for him both times. The divide that's been created in the country is partially because of him IMO and all I see in Hilary is more of the same and I will not vote for that. I know there are several folks who won't agree with that and that's okay, but that's my opinion on things.

 

I have personal knowledge of the way Hilary treats people and her thoughts towards law enforcement. Being a law enforcement officer I can not and will not vote for someone who doesn't like us no matter what she is saying now. With 15 years in this career and 3 of those being on a SWAT team I had the luxury of providing dignitary protection several times and have spoken with enough Secret Service Agents to know where there is smoke there is fire with her. The fact that she brought up the Charlotte shooting as being wrong the other night for the debates was the final nail in the coffin for me in reference to her.

 

Then I listen to Trump speak and I'm like, "Whoa!" "Clean it up dude!" So the next two debates are going to be huge for me. I'm not going to vote for him because he's not Hilary, I'll keep my butt at home and say forget it, but that kinda sucks too. Johnson is a weirdo and I disagree with some of his positions at this point.

 

Well said BRI. And thank you for your services and sacrifices. I am really disappointed in the anti-law enforcement sentiment that is rampant through this nation.

[Moiraine]

I'm one of the ones on the fence. I'm either going to vote for Trump or I'm not. I know I'm not voting for Hilary, I was a registered democrat and changed it to independent this past spring. Obama's second term in office really soured me towards him and I voted for him both times. The divide that's been created in the country is partially because of him IMO and all I see in Hilary is more of the same and I will not vote for that. I know there are several folks who won't agree with that and that's okay, but that's my opinion on things.

 

I have personal knowledge of the way Hilary treats people and her thoughts towards law enforcement. Being a law enforcement officer I can not and will not vote for someone who doesn't like us no matter what she is saying now. With 15 years in this career and 3 of those being on a SWAT team I had the luxury of providing dignitary protection several times and have spoken with enough Secret Service Agents to know where there is smoke there is fire with her. The fact that she brought up the Charlotte shooting as being wrong the other night for the debates was the final nail in the coffin for me in reference to her.

 

Then I listen to Trump speak and I'm like, "Whoa!" "Clean it up dude!" So the next two debates are going to be huge for me. I'm not going to vote for him because he's not Hilary, I'll keep my butt at home and say forget it, but that kinda sucks too. Johnson is a weirdo and I disagree with some of his positions at this point.

 

 

You can't do that. President isn't the only thing on the ballot. There are other offices and policies you can vote on.

[Moiraine]

Well said BRI. And thank you for your services and sacrifices. I am really disappointed in the anti-law enforcement sentiment that is rampant through this nation.

 

 

It's not rampant. It's loud.

[GBRHouston]

1) I would listen, but not reconsider.

2) No, because look who he is running against. Basically this election is not about who's best, it's about who's worse.

[HuskerNation1]

 

Well said BRI. And thank you for your services and sacrifices. I am really disappointed in the anti-law enforcement sentiment that is rampant through this nation.

 

 

It's not rampant. It's loud.

 

 

You would argue about the definition, but rampant by definition is "something that is spreading very quickly." I would say in my lifetime the anti-cop sentiment has grown rather quickly these past couple years. If you want to call it as loud, that's fine, but there are many on the Progressive left jumping on the protest and BLM bandwagons which have an anti-cop sentiment at their core.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rampant