Trump's America

[StPaulHusker]

 

Also, assuming that small towns have had no exposure to different cultures is just wrong.

 

 

That's great but it also hasn't been argued by anybody.

 

Being the argumentative type that I am, I would possibly argue that there is a difference between being exposed to "brown" people and being exposed to different cultures.

[NM11046]

 

 

 

And what do people from big cities understand about rural America? Do they partake in different life experiences related to those of rural America? What efforts have they made?

 

They just write off that portion of Americans as stupid, and oblivious to the world. I can't stand Trump as much as the next guy, but stupidity, and oblivious nature isn't anymore common in rural America then it is in the big cities.

 

 

 

 

I agree that stupidity doesn't know any geographical constraints, but obliviousness does.

 

The majority of Americans live in cities. Cities are where culture is developed, where immigrants end up, where fringe/minority/oppressed groups can find enough people like them to have solidarity and stand up for themselves, etc. These are general statements which are generally true, not absolutely true.

 

If you grow up in small town Nebraska, you grow up with little to no exposure to life experiences of blacks, muslims, gays, buddhists, asians, so on and so forth. These people groups, collectively, make up almost half of America!

 

If you grow up in a city, you grow up wth little to no exposure to farmers, factory/industry workers, I guess Native Americans, and that's... about it. That's a much, much, MUCH smaller group of unique people. I don't know how to combine the stats, but I'd imagine less than 5-10%.

 

 

 

 

I've had city friends (lived in major urban areas 100% of their lives) make trips to Nebraska with me. I've also had small town friends and family visit the big cities I've lived in. I also go home and interact with my mom's coworkers and friends in Columbus often. The difference between city people being exposed to and approaching rural America and vice versa is profound.

 

 

I don't know why it matters how less unique rural people are, it's still a culture/environment that those in cities are unfamiliar with.

 

Also, assuming that small towns have had no exposure to different cultures is just wrong. It's not to the extent of large cities, but I live in a small town in SWMO of around 9,000 people. It's probably (educated guess) 50% white, 35% hispanic, 10% black, and 5% asian/island pacific.... As much as it'd blow the minds of those in the city, and national media; we all get a long pretty damn well. I can't tell you that I've ever read, or heard of any racial issue in our little area.

 

Something I've come to know about the "rural white male" (at least in my area) is that what they sometimes say, and how they actually feel don't coincide. As an example: My father-in-law is the best man I know, he has said some racially insensitive things to be sure, but he has a black guy in town that helps him on his farm. Just about every time I'm around he raves about the guy, and how much he enjoys having him around. I'ved pulled up to his place midday a few times, and seen them throwing back Busch Lights by the barn, laughing their asses off. Obviously, this is one example, but I think it's more common then you want to believe.

 

 

 

 

 

So here's my question for clarity (or thought) and it stems from having a father who sounds to be very similar to your father in law. And I certainly can't think of the best way to phrase it ... so apologies because it's going to come out wrong and abrasive...

 

So he's good friends with and respects this black man - but does he still view the entire race differently? His comments that you mention would make me question that.

 

For instance, my dad is what I would call racist light (he feels (less than his parents) it but rarely says anything out loud in front of me, every once an awhile an insensitive comment slips out, but i know based on things he says to my mother when they are alone that he has not moved on from viewing african americans as less than) he is openly homophobic etc. Kindest, most patient, generous person I know. He will say something horrible about 'the gays' and then my mom points out that he plays bridge with one. His reply, "well xyz is different".

 

Just to challenge your "feel what they say" comment. I think that's true, but in reverse (at least in the cases I can point to personally). The racists/homophobic/etc beliefs are there and very strong. Generation over generation it becomes less appropriate to say these things aloud, but they still feel them. The surprises are that as they are exposed to people within these categories they find that, "hey, they're not so bad, my long held beliefs may not be appropriate to apply to the whole". The challenge in my mind is that in less populated areas (rural or city) they're exposed to less people different than themselves.

 

I'm grateful to hear that things are far more diverse now than they were when I grew up, but the lifers in my hometown are just angry that property values are going down because of the immigrants who "all live 3 families in a house" etc. (yet another example of negative bias and sterotype)

[B.B. Hemingway]

 

 

 

 

And what do people from big cities understand about rural America? Do they partake in different life experiences related to those of rural America? What efforts have they made?

 

They just write off that portion of Americans as stupid, and oblivious to the world. I can't stand Trump as much as the next guy, but stupidity, and oblivious nature isn't anymore common in rural America then it is in the big cities.

 

 

 

 

I agree that stupidity doesn't know any geographical constraints, but obliviousness does.

 

The majority of Americans live in cities. Cities are where culture is developed, where immigrants end up, where fringe/minority/oppressed groups can find enough people like them to have solidarity and stand up for themselves, etc. These are general statements which are generally true, not absolutely true.

 

If you grow up in small town Nebraska, you grow up with little to no exposure to life experiences of blacks, muslims, gays, buddhists, asians, so on and so forth. These people groups, collectively, make up almost half of America!

 

If you grow up in a city, you grow up wth little to no exposure to farmers, factory/industry workers, I guess Native Americans, and that's... about it. That's a much, much, MUCH smaller group of unique people. I don't know how to combine the stats, but I'd imagine less than 5-10%.

 

 

 

 

I've had city friends (lived in major urban areas 100% of their lives) make trips to Nebraska with me. I've also had small town friends and family visit the big cities I've lived in. I also go home and interact with my mom's coworkers and friends in Columbus often. The difference between city people being exposed to and approaching rural America and vice versa is profound.

 

 

I don't know why it matters how less unique rural people are, it's still a culture/environment that those in cities are unfamiliar with.

 

Also, assuming that small towns have had no exposure to different cultures is just wrong. It's not to the extent of large cities, but I live in a small town in SWMO of around 9,000 people. It's probably (educated guess) 50% white, 35% hispanic, 10% black, and 5% asian/island pacific.... As much as it'd blow the minds of those in the city, and national media; we all get a long pretty damn well. I can't tell you that I've ever read, or heard of any racial issue in our little area.

 

Something I've come to know about the "rural white male" (at least in my area) is that what they sometimes say, and how they actually feel don't coincide. As an example: My father-in-law is the best man I know, he has said some racially insensitive things to be sure, but he has a black guy in town that helps him on his farm. Just about every time I'm around he raves about the guy, and how much he enjoys having him around. I'ved pulled up to his place midday a few times, and seen them throwing back Busch Lights by the barn, laughing their asses off. Obviously, this is one example, but I think it's more common then you want to believe.

 

 

 

 

 

So here's my question for clarity (or thought) and it stems from having a father who sounds to be very similar to your father in law. And I certainly can't think of the best way to phrase it ... so apologies because it's going to come out wrong and abrasive...

 

So he's good friends with and respects this black man - but does he still view the entire race differently? His comments that you mention would make me question that.

 

For instance, my dad is what I would call racist light (he feels (less than his parents) it but rarely says anything out loud in front of me, every once an awhile an insensitive comment slips out, but i know based on things he says to my mother when they are alone that he has not moved on from viewing african americans as less than) he is openly homophobic etc. Kindest, most patient, generous person I know. He will say something horrible about 'the gays' and then my mom points out that he plays bridge with one. His reply, "well xyz is different".

 

Just to challenge your "feel what they say" comment. I think that's true, but in reverse (at least in the cases I can point to personally). The racists/homophobic/etc beliefs are there and very strong. Generation over generation it becomes less appropriate to say these things aloud, but they still feel them. The surprises are that as they are exposed to people within these categories they find that, "hey, they're not so bad, my long held beliefs may not be appropriate to apply to the whole". The challenge in my mind is that in less populated areas (rural or city) they're exposed to less people different than themselves.

 

I'm grateful to hear that things are far more diverse now than they were when I grew up, but the lifers in my hometown are just angry that property values are going down because of the immigrants who "all live 3 families in a house" etc. (yet another example of negative bias and sterotype)

 

 

 

I think those "beliefs" are ingrained in their core, but I don't often see them (older white males in my area) apply those beliefs on a case-by-case basis. Does that make sense?

 

My wife's sister married a man, born in Houston, but his parents are from El Salvador. He, and my father-in-law have a very interesting dialogue. The son-in-law doesn't like grouping people from El Salvador in with Mexicans, so of course my father-in-law does it often with a smile on his face. In fairness, the son-in-law will poke him with stuff like "country ass hillbilly", and other similar stereotypical stuff. It usually ends in laughter, and there is a love there that really does seem genuine between the two.

 

I think it's important to remember, that even with those "beliefs", they're not all bad people. You'd be hard pressed to find a better man than my father-in-law.

 

Anyways.....

[zoogs]

Absolutely agree. It's no mystery why Trump didn't go directly after the Virginia white supremacists. He has no interest in condemning them. They are not Mexican. Or Muslim.

Name the problem. This is the wink, wink dog whistle that says to white supremacists: the onus is on others.

Also, important words here: https://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/896257363673587712

 

The fashion profiles, calling them "kids" (minimizing the impact of their ideology), portraying them as part of a desirable group etc

And when we complained (and many of us did) we were told a) free speech b) they need to be exposed c) it's both sides etc

None of that was true. In fact, many of these portrayals happened because the journos/writers are not part of the nazi's target group

It's easy to find emotional distance to feature these violent men if you don't have to think of how they'd attack you, your children, etc

 

[zoogs]

[NM11046]

My heart is broken today and I am scared for our nation.

[commando]

my grandfather didn't fight the nazis in WW2 for them to be here doing this crap in america. i may be an old fart....but sign me up if we need to fight against them again.

[RedDenver]

my grandfather didn't fight the nazis in WW2 for them to be here doing this crap in america. i may be an old fart....but sign me up if we need to fight against them again.

You won't be alone

[B.B. Hemingway]

My heart is broken today and I am scared for our nation.

 

It's incredibly disappointing. However, this country as pulled through worse times. I like to think during times like this, that our nation's next great leader is being inspired, and molded in the background.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

At the same time though, how many of those people in the cities have experienced nature to it's fullest. How many have woke up to the sounds of nature around you instead of traffic? which one of those makes you more worldly and knowledgable about how the world works?

 

 

 

Boy, I've asked myself that a lot. We ask our candidates to clarify their religious beliefs, maybe trick them into revealing the last book they read, but we rarely demand to know how much time they spend in nature. Even a walk in the park or recalling a memorable sunset.

 

I don't think you should rule the world without having a healthy relationship with nature.

[commando]

[Guy Chamberlin]

There is an understandable attraction to the simple life. Unfortunately the world is a complex place. So there's a big payday for anyone who can make the complex simple.

 

There was a study some years ago. People have trouble understanding issues. They prefer faces and narratives. Specifically they need two faces: one good guy and one bad guy. No matter how many sides there are to a story, we want it boiled down to the good guy and the bad guy. Whoever gets that nailed down first and best can sway the debate.

 

It's not hard to make people yearn for a simpler time. It's typically their youth. Has almost nothing to do with the greatness of America and everything to do with being young, safe, your parents still alive and vital, your life still before you and anything still possible. It's an easy emotion to exploit. Even people who don't think they're racist or sexist can recall those hazy times when everyone seemed to know their place. From there it's easy to create enemies out of the people who ruined that simpler time with their demands for special treatment (also known as equality.)

 

Once you've crossed that bridge, you can get hard-working Americans to believe billionaires are the victims of class warfare.

[zoogs]

 

My heart is broken today and I am scared for our nation.

 

It's incredibly disappointing. However, this country as pulled through worse times. I like to think during times like this, that our nation's next great leader is being inspired, and molded in the background.

 

 

But which side will he be on?

[B.B. Hemingway]

 

 

My heart is broken today and I am scared for our nation.

 

It's incredibly disappointing. However, this country as pulled through worse times. I like to think during times like this, that our nation's next great leader is being inspired, and molded in the background.

 

 

But which side will he be on?

 

 

I said "great" leader. If you mean Republican, or Democrat, I don't really care. I'm more of a Conservative, but I voted for Obama twice. When it comes to racial divide/hate, I think we know which side a great leader will fall on.

[zoogs]

I don't know. Perhaps I'm just particularly disheartened today -- I don't think it's a given. There have been great leaders on the wrong side (and I don't mean on tax policy) many times in history before, and we'd be remiss to discount the possibility that it could happen here.

 

And they were great. Terrible, but great.