Trump's America

[zoogs]

The post itself is pretty indicative of the problem lots of people have with Trump supporters:

Very, very nonexclusive to Trump supporters.

 

I picture Count as being one of the millions that voted for Trump because he was fed up with working harder and having less to show for that effort

To turn the discussion back politically, I agree with this. It's outrageous and unfortunate that people are working harder in an era of increasing prosperity where the lavish financial gains for which they labor accrue only to the top. It's a gap that began to explode in the 1980s and the cynicism and disenchantment that come with it are the wages of social inequality.

 

We've put the exact wrong people in power to fight against this.

 

Many of you also say you need evidence from some study funded by any Tom, Dick and Harry to prove a point.

This is how discourse works. If you want to advance an argument and be taken seriously, be prepared to back it up. If you cannot, then admit to the possibility that your conclusions are quite incorrect.

[knapplc]

If the majority of posters and Trump haters on this board would really look at what happened in this last election, it is exactly your attitude that allowed him to win. We were tired of hearing our opinions don't matter and belong in the stone age. Those of us on the right and far right finally found a candidate that at least initially speaks our language and shucks down to the cob on the issues of the day instead of tap dancing and saying nothing. I doubt very much if Trump will follow through with some of his pledges but he got many people out to vote who didn't vote in the last election. People who haven't had a voice since 1984 in any decision that affects this country nationally.

 

Many of you also say you need evidence from some study funded by any Tom, Dick and Harry to prove a point. Most of you are probably more internet savvy than me. I know what I see on the streets. People working part time or even working 2 or 3 part time jobs to make ends meet. People whose job was shipped to China under Clinton and the "moderate" republican congress in the 90's.

 

I was disappointed to see Count get banned and hope it isn't permanent.

 

 

 

Peoples' jobs will be shipped to China under Trump more than under any other president. For the love of your deity of choice, the man owns more offshore interests than any other president in US history. He employs more people overseas than any other president in US history. If this is a real, real problem for you, you screwed up BIG TIME voting for Donald Trump.

 

I live on the real streets. I know what billionaires like Trump do to real people. This idea that a guy who's never been a common laborer like me is going to know what it's like to live the blue-collar life I've lived and make things better for me is insane.

[TonyStalloni]

 

If the majority of posters and Trump haters on this board would really look at what happened in this last election, it is exactly your attitude that allowed him to win. We were tired of hearing our opinions don't matter and belong in the stone age. Those of us on the right and far right finally found a candidate that at least initially speaks our language and shucks down to the cob on the issues of the day instead of tap dancing and saying nothing. I doubt very much if Trump will follow through with some of his pledges but he got many people out to vote who didn't vote in the last election. People who haven't had a voice since 1984 in any decision that affects this country nationally.

 

Many of you also say you need evidence from some study funded by any Tom, Dick and Harry to prove a point. Most of you are probably more internet savvy than me. I know what I see on the streets. People working part time or even working 2 or 3 part time jobs to make ends meet. People whose job was shipped to China under Clinton and the "moderate" republican congress in the 90's.

 

I was disappointed to see Count get banned and hope it isn't permanent.

 

 

 

Peoples' jobs will be shipped to China under Trump more than under any other president. For the love of your deity of choice, the man owns more offshore interests than any other president in US history. He employs more people overseas than any other president in US history. If this is a real, real problem for you, you screwed up BIG TIME voting for Donald Trump.

 

I live on the real streets. I know what billionaires like Trump do to real people. This idea that a guy who's never been a common laborer like me is going to know what it's like to live the blue-collar life I've lived and make things better for me is insane.

 

And if he does he'll be gone and he better move out of the country.

[BigRedBuster]

There have only been about 3 posters actively supportive of Trump on this board. Count was one of them. The language and demeanor in which he has been posting the last few months provided the opportunity some had been waiting for to get things rebalanced to 98-2 instead of the unacceptable 97-3 odds. Plus he did use that one word that shall not be mentioned. Voldemort has nothing on that one.

 

Not saying I agree at all but that is how it appears to me. Tread lightly if you want to speak out against the left.

Sorry JJ. I like your posts...but this one is BS.

[JJ Husker]

 

There have only been about 3 posters actively supportive of Trump on this board. Count was one of them. The language and demeanor in which he has been posting the last few months provided the opportunity some had been waiting for to get things rebalanced to 98-2 instead of the unacceptable 97-3 odds. Plus he did use that one word that shall not be mentioned. Voldemort has nothing on that one.

Not saying I agree at all but that is how it appears to me. Tread lightly if you want to speak out against the left.

Sorry JJ. I like your posts...but this one is BS.

Which part of it specifically is BS?

 

I threw one shot in there (the last sentence) meant to stimulate (trolling a bit) the discussion. And the 98-2 may have been a little hyperbolic but, other than that I don't believe anything I said was inaccurate. Besides that it was basically my opinion based on what I've seen over the years on this board. I guess my opinion may be considered BS, wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

[JJ Husker]

Please don't mistake this is as supporting Trump but, of course he owns more stuff outside of this country than any other President has. How many billionaire (with a B) presidents have we had? I bet he owns more stuff in this country than any other also. That's what happens when you have that much money....you own stuff. But I guess we can crucify him for that too.

[Landlord]

I've tried to make that point countless (no pun intended) times previously on this board, that Trump was elected because of dissatisfaction with the status quo and not because anyone particularly liked what he stood for. The majority hereabouts routinely would igore that narrative and focus on the worst aspects of Trump and some of his supporters.

 

 

Both these things are true. You've seen people ignore the first - I haven't. I've just seen people add an addendum. The accounts of many non-conservatives essentially boil down to, "Look, we get it, people are struggling and feel ignored, jobs are disappearing from blue-collar culture, and some of us are certainly guilty of this 'coastal elitism' mindset, but this sexist, racist, vile, morally bankrupt demagogue narcissist isn't the solution and is in fact terrible for America."

[Landlord]

I understand the 98-2 bit is hyperbolic, but look around:

 

 

JJHusker1

BRB

TonyStalloni

Takoda

bnillhome

84HuskerLaw

BRI

cornstar

TGhusker

NUance

Titanic VS Louisiana or whatever

 

 

 

All of these posters either voted for Trump, identify as a republican, or lean conservative. That's just who I thought of off the top of my head.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

There have only been about 3 posters actively supportive of Trump on this board. Count was one of them. The language and demeanor in which he has been posting the last few months provided the opportunity some had been waiting for to get things rebalanced to 98-2 instead of the unacceptable 97-3 odds. Plus he did use that one word that shall not be mentioned. Voldemort has nothing on that one.

Not saying I agree at all but that is how it appears to me. Tread lightly if you want to speak out against the left.

Sorry JJ. I like your posts...but this one is BS.

Which part of it specifically is BS?

 

I threw one shot in there (the last sentence) meant to stimulate (trolling a bit) the discussion. And the 98-2 may have been a little hyperbolic but, other than that I don't believe anything I said was inaccurate. Besides that it was basically my opinion based on what I've seen over the years on this board. I guess my opinion may be considered BS, wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

It's pretty much all BS.

 

As has been pointed out, there are way more than 2-4 conservatives I this site that "speak out about the left" and nothing ever happens to them.

 

Then, when you add the last sentence it falls into the category of BS.

[JJ Husker]

I get it LOMS. There are some who tend to lean to the right. But when it comes to Trump, there are quite a few less arguing for him. I certainly haven't, BRB hasn't, TG hasn't..... My point wasn't that it is correct to support Trump or that a person should. I don't because of his many problems. But some of us can and will acknowledge there are issues where a person like Trump may be considered desirable. It just seems that most spend their time vilifying him (usually justified BTW) for his bad points. My point was that it can become overwhelming and place a person in a defensive posture. I was only trying to place myself in Count's shoes and explain the behavior. Not saying it's right but, even for a guy like me that doesn't like Trump, I can recognize how lopsided most of these discussions are. Maybe that's inevitable considering Trump's many downsides but, if you are fed up with the status quo and the general trend to move left in this country and find yourself as one of the few willing to speak out in favor of the alternate direction, it easily could lead to this outcome.

 

BTW,I didn't vote for Trump and I no longer identify as republican. I do still lean conservative though. I also didn't vote for HRC and will likely never identify as a Democrat and I won't ever be in the liberal camp. Laughably though, I have been accused of being a liberal lefty on this board....might have been cornstar, I don't recall.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

There have only been about 3 posters actively supportive of Trump on this board. Count was one of them. The language and demeanor in which he has been posting the last few months provided the opportunity some had been waiting for to get things rebalanced to 98-2 instead of the unacceptable 97-3 odds. Plus he did use that one word that shall not be mentioned. Voldemort has nothing on that one.

Not saying I agree at all but that is how it appears to me. Tread lightly if you want to speak out against the left.

Sorry JJ. I like your posts...but this one is BS.

Which part of it specifically is BS?

I threw one shot in there (the last sentence) meant to stimulate (trolling a bit) the discussion. And the 98-2 may have been a little hyperbolic but, other than that I don't believe anything I said was inaccurate. Besides that it was basically my opinion based on what I've seen over the years on this board. I guess my opinion may be considered BS, wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

It's pretty much all BS.

As has been pointed out, there are way more than 2-4 conservatives I this site that "speak out about the left" and nothing ever happens to them.

Then, when you add the last sentence it falls into the category of BS.

Fine, that is your opinion. If you don't recognize that the general lean in the P&R forum and the administration of this board tends toward the left, I won't be able to convince you otherwise. I'm not claiming a person can't speak out against the left without getting banned (I've done it and I'm still here) but I do belive it makes a person more susceptible to that outcome. Just my opinion, maybe it is BS.

 

The bigger point, that I'm not going to press, is the use of that one word as a contributing factor. We'll just leave that one alone but I think there is enough of a track record to back it up.

[knapplc]

I get it LOMS. There are some who tend to lean to the right. But when it comes to Trump, there are quite a few less arguing for him. I certainly haven't, BRB hasn't, TG hasn't..... My point wasn't that it is correct to support Trump or that a person should. I don't because of his many problems. But some of us can and will acknowledge there are issues where a person like Trump may be considered desirable. It just seems that most spend their time vilifying him (usually justified BTW) for his bad points. My point was that it can become overwhelming and place a person in a defensive posture. I was only trying to place myself in Count's shoes and explain the behavior. Not saying it's right but, even for a guy like me that doesn't like Trump, I can recognize how lopsided most of these discussions are. Maybe that's inevitable considering Trump's many downsides but, if you are fed up with the status quo and the general trend to move left in this country and find yourself as one of the few willing to speak out in favor of the alternate direction, it easily could lead to this outcome.

 

BTW,I didn't vote for Trump and I no longer identify as republican. I do still lean conservative though. I also didn't vote for HRC and will likely never identify as a Democrat and I won't ever be in the liberal camp. Laughably though, I have been accused of being a liberal lefty on this board....might have been cornstar, I don't recall.

 

There's a problem with terminology here. Nobody should be arguing "for" any particular president. We need to be in favor of what is right.

 

This, precisely this, is why Trump got elected. Not some line about dissatisfaction or disaffectation, but because people chose teams. That happened way before this election when people decided they were Liberal or Conservative, Republican or Democrat.

 

There's truth and there's BS. What most of us are doing here, most have been for years, are arguing for truth. A lot of lies and misinformation has come out about Obama, and many of us have gone to great lengths to disprove those lies, and that's viewed as being pro-Obama. It's pro-Truth.

 

I did the same thing with Bush. Same thing with Clinton. Same thing with Trump.

 

Where people think this is pro-Obama or anti-Conservative is where they deviate from truth.

 

TonyStalloni talked about it on this very page - "Many of you also say you need evidence from some study funded by any Tom, Dick and Harry to prove a point. Most of you are probably more internet savvy than me. I know what I see on the streets." Yes, evidence is key to a knowledgeable conversation. No, facts are not optional. Tony's "what I see on the streets" is factually inaccurate when applied to Trump as some panacea to what ails the Common Man. He'll find that out over the Trump presidency, but the truth of it, the facts of it, were there WAY before the election took place.

 

That problem, post-factualisim, is what Trump's America is all about. That's what we're up against. We can fight it by not being pro-Trump, pro-Republican, pro-Democrat, but by being pro-facts. Do that, focus on that, and you'll find out you're on a much bigger team on this site than you think you are now.

[JJ Husker]

 

I get it LOMS. There are some who tend to lean to the right. But when it comes to Trump, there are quite a few less arguing for him. I certainly haven't, BRB hasn't, TG hasn't..... My point wasn't that it is correct to support Trump or that a person should. I don't because of his many problems. But some of us can and will acknowledge there are issues where a person like Trump may be considered desirable. It just seems that most spend their time vilifying him (usually justified BTW) for his bad points. My point was that it can become overwhelming and place a person in a defensive posture. I was only trying to place myself in Count's shoes and explain the behavior. Not saying it's right but, even for a guy like me that doesn't like Trump, I can recognize how lopsided most of these discussions are. Maybe that's inevitable considering Trump's many downsides but, if you are fed up with the status quo and the general trend to move left in this country and find yourself as one of the few willing to speak out in favor of the alternate direction, it easily could lead to this outcome.

BTW,I didn't vote for Trump and I no longer identify as republican. I do still lean conservative though. I also didn't vote for HRC and will likely never identify as a Democrat and I won't ever be in the liberal camp. Laughably though, I have been accused of being a liberal lefty on this board....might have been cornstar, I don't recall.

 

There's a problem with terminology here. Nobody should be arguing "for" any particular president. We need to be in favor of what is right.

 

This, precisely this, is why Trump got elected. Not some line about dissatisfaction or disaffectation, but because people chose teams. That happened way before this election when people decided they were Liberal or Conservative, Republican or Democrat.

 

There's truth and there's BS. What most of us are doing here, most have been for years, are arguing for truth. A lot of lies and misinformation has come out about Obama, and many of us have gone to great lengths to disprove those lies, and that's viewed as being pro-Obama. It's pro-Truth.

 

I did the same thing with Bush. Same thing with Clinton. Same thing with Trump.

 

Where people think this is pro-Obama or anti-Conservative is where they deviate from truth.

 

TonyStalloni talked about it on this very page - "Many of you also say you need evidence from some study funded by any Tom, Dick and Harry to prove a point. Most of you are probably more internet savvy than me. I know what I see on the streets." Yes, evidence is key to a knowledgeable conversation. No, facts are not optional. Tony's "what I see on the streets" is factually inaccurate when applied to Trump as some panacea to what ails the Common Man. He'll find that out over the Trump presidency, but the truth of it, the facts of it, were there WAY before the election took place.

 

That problem, post-factualisim, is what Trump's America is all about. That's what we're up against. We can fight it by not being pro-Trump, pro-Republican, pro-Democrat, but by being pro-facts. Do that, focus on that, and you'll find out you're on a much bigger team on this site than you think you are now.

Good post. I don't disagree with any of this. I don't feel particularly outnumbered or on some other team. However I do feel I have moved slightly left of where I used to be and I do feel the general slant in this forum is still left of me. It's not a big deal and I'm not crying about it. It's just the way I perceive it.

 

I only brought it up as an attempt to explain Count's recent behavior. I think we all noticed that his posting changed and got a bit more aggressive. I just hate to see long time posters get the boot. It's sort of like a family member moved away.

[Moiraine]

If the forum is slanted Left it's very slight. It's slanted more strongly anti-Trump than it is slanted anti-Right, and should be.

[knapplc]

 

 

I get it LOMS. There are some who tend to lean to the right. But when it comes to Trump, there are quite a few less arguing for him. I certainly haven't, BRB hasn't, TG hasn't..... My point wasn't that it is correct to support Trump or that a person should. I don't because of his many problems. But some of us can and will acknowledge there are issues where a person like Trump may be considered desirable. It just seems that most spend their time vilifying him (usually justified BTW) for his bad points. My point was that it can become overwhelming and place a person in a defensive posture. I was only trying to place myself in Count's shoes and explain the behavior. Not saying it's right but, even for a guy like me that doesn't like Trump, I can recognize how lopsided most of these discussions are. Maybe that's inevitable considering Trump's many downsides but, if you are fed up with the status quo and the general trend to move left in this country and find yourself as one of the few willing to speak out in favor of the alternate direction, it easily could lead to this outcome.

BTW,I didn't vote for Trump and I no longer identify as republican. I do still lean conservative though. I also didn't vote for HRC and will likely never identify as a Democrat and I won't ever be in the liberal camp. Laughably though, I have been accused of being a liberal lefty on this board....might have been cornstar, I don't recall.

There's a problem with terminology here. Nobody should be arguing "for" any particular president. We need to be in favor of what is right.

 

This, precisely this, is why Trump got elected. Not some line about dissatisfaction or disaffectation, but because people chose teams. That happened way before this election when people decided they were Liberal or Conservative, Republican or Democrat.

 

There's truth and there's BS. What most of us are doing here, most have been for years, are arguing for truth. A lot of lies and misinformation has come out about Obama, and many of us have gone to great lengths to disprove those lies, and that's viewed as being pro-Obama. It's pro-Truth.

 

I did the same thing with Bush. Same thing with Clinton. Same thing with Trump.

 

Where people think this is pro-Obama or anti-Conservative is where they deviate from truth.

 

TonyStalloni talked about it on this very page - "Many of you also say you need evidence from some study funded by any Tom, Dick and Harry to prove a point. Most of you are probably more internet savvy than me. I know what I see on the streets." Yes, evidence is key to a knowledgeable conversation. No, facts are not optional. Tony's "what I see on the streets" is factually inaccurate when applied to Trump as some panacea to what ails the Common Man. He'll find that out over the Trump presidency, but the truth of it, the facts of it, were there WAY before the election took place.

 

That problem, post-factualisim, is what Trump's America is all about. That's what we're up against. We can fight it by not being pro-Trump, pro-Republican, pro-Democrat, but by being pro-facts. Do that, focus on that, and you'll find out you're on a much bigger team on this site than you think you are now.

Good post. I don't disagree with any of this. I don't feel particularly outnumbered or on some other team. However I do feel I have moved slightly left of where I used to be and I do feel the general slant in this forum is still left of me. It's not a big deal and I'm not crying about it. It's just the way I perceive it.

 

I only brought it up as an attempt to explain Count's recent behavior. I think we all noticed that his posting changed and got a bit more aggressive. I just hate to see long time posters get the boot. It's sort of like a family member moved away.

 

 

I think you and I disagree on a lot of political things, but I can always have a reasonable conversation with you. That is not the case with way too many people who post in this forum (P&R).

 

And sadly, that has not been the case with Count lately. And I don't know why. I hope he's OK, because his character this past year has not been what I know of him.