Repealing the ACA under Trump

[BigRedBuster]

I obviously think this bill is crap and long for the days when the US actually passes a bill that provides access to everyone and at a reasonable cost.

 

However, I'm finding myself feeling guilty that there is a part of me that wants the Republicans to pass this so that reality smacks their voters right in the face.

 

For the healthcare system and for people personally, that would obviously be a horrible thing to have happen. Politically, for the US, I think we would benefit.

[zoogs]

You're not alone in that thinking. There's some silver lining type of argument that nothing could push the U.S. faster toward single payer.

 

I'm less optimistic and remain in favor os just trying to make the right, small decision at every branch.

[Nebfanatic]

Yea I'm not going to bank on any set of policies 'waking people up' some people cannot be woke and will blame the other side for their misfortune no matter what policies actually affect them negatively

[Danny Bateman]

I can't find myself hoping for policies that would have have a horrible human cost, even if it gets a bunch of these craven, out-of-touch GOP members out of Congress or leads to better policy in the future.

But I can only control so much. Progress is rarely linear. If it does come to pass, I guess we'll just have to try to make the best of it and use some of our newfound freedom and choice to try to help our fellow Americans stay alive in the interim.

[Danny Bateman]

Good breakdown on recent changes from someone who knows his stuff:

 

[Moiraine]

I obviously think this bill is crap and long for the days when the US actually passes a bill that provides access to everyone and at a reasonable cost.

 

However, I'm finding myself feeling guilty that there is a part of me that wants the Republicans to pass this so that reality smacks their voters right in the face.

 

For the healthcare system and for people personally, that would obviously be a horrible thing to have happen. Politically, for the US, I think we would benefit.

 

I've felt this way too. How will people know how bad the plan was if they never see it? Especially if they live in a bubble.

[Danny Bateman]

 

I obviously think this bill is crap and long for the days when the US actually passes a bill that provides access to everyone and at a reasonable cost.

 

However, I'm finding myself feeling guilty that there is a part of me that wants the Republicans to pass this so that reality smacks their voters right in the face.

 

For the healthcare system and for people personally, that would obviously be a horrible thing to have happen. Politically, for the US, I think we would benefit.

 

I've felt this way too. How will people know how bad the plan was if they never see it? Especially if they live in a bubble.

 

 

I'll just leave this here.

 

 

People living in that bubble very neatly live in an alternative reality. The numbers on almost every question are the inverse of everyone else.

 

Fox News is like a cult leader. It's poisoning our country.

[TGHusker]

I think we ultimately as a country need to make a decision: Between single payer and totally free market (as free market as our pre ACA was - nothing is purely free market).

 

I hear horror stories about single payer and govt run health care - inefficiencies, lack of choice, lack of freedom, etc I hear horror stories of free market - individuals priced out of the market, restricted coverage, etc.

 

Has anyone seen an unbiased (if that is even possible) point by point comparison of the 2 clear options? If so, can you present it here or provide links?

 

ACA and what the Repubs are trying to do is like the old King Solomon story in the Bible - threaten to split the baby in half to determine who the real mother was (the one who gave up her rights for the sake of the baby - if you didn't know). We are trying to please both worlds wt this legislation and I don't think it will work. Our society was built on free enterprise but we are also a compassionate nation. Are they incapable?

 

 

And besides this is no way to govern. In 2009 there were bribes galore by the Dems to get the ACA passed along wt closed doors. Now the Repubs are doing the very thing they criticized the dems for. If our policies force us to take bad action to get it passed, then change the policy.

[BigRedBuster]

TG...I think to a certain extent, you are right. Problem is, we aren't even doing a good job of that.

 

What the Republicans need to flat out admit one way or the other....Is access to healthcare by everyone in society important to them?

 

They need to be flat out asked that and not let off the hook until they actually answer it with a yes or no answer.

 

And....a "yes" with a follow up of....if we free up the world of healthcare, everyone in la la land will somehow instantly have all the healthcare they need and the ability to pay for it....is not acceptable.

 

If their answer is "NO", then we know where the debate really is and we can have that debate.

If the answer is "YES", then they need to, in detail, explain how their program is going to work to accomplish that.

[Red Five]

[RedDenver]

I think we ultimately as a country need to make a decision: Between single payer and totally free market (as free market as our pre ACA was - nothing is purely free market).

 

I hear horror stories about single payer and govt run health care - inefficiencies, lack of choice, lack of freedom, etc I hear horror stories of free market - individuals priced out of the market, restricted coverage, etc.

 

Has anyone seen an unbiased (if that is even possible) point by point comparison of the 2 clear options? If so, can you present it here or provide links?

 

ACA and what the Repubs are trying to do is like the old King Solomon story in the Bible - threaten to split the baby in half to determine who the real mother was (the one who gave up her rights for the sake of the baby - if you didn't know). We are trying to please both worlds wt this legislation and I don't think it will work. Our society was built on free enterprise but we are also a compassionate nation. Are they incapable?

 

 

And besides this is no way to govern. In 2009 there were bribes galore by the Dems to get the ACA passed along wt closed doors. Now the Repubs are doing the very thing they criticized the dems for. If our policies force us to take bad action to get it passed, then change the policy.

Here's a pretty good article that discusses the differences between healthcare in 5 different countries (US, UK, France, Germany, and Canada) and some of the problems facing universal healthcare. I found it interesting that the US government already spends as much or more than those other countries, and that the US life expectancy is 2 years less than those other countries.

 

EDIT: A good resource for healthcare data is the OECD (google "OECD healthcare").

Edited June 29, 2017 by RedDenver

[zoogs]

I grew up hearing horror stories about Canada healthcare and European healthcare. I now hear mostly about how they're model systems compared to the U.S.... I think it really depends on the sources and their motivations. The former were a lot of very conservative bent folks unsurprisingly, and it's become increasingly clear that universal coverage is simply not something they're interested in.

[jsneb83]

I obviously think this bill is crap and long for the days when the US actually passes a bill that provides access to everyone and at a reasonable cost.

 

However, I'm finding myself feeling guilty that there is a part of me that wants the Republicans to pass this so that reality smacks their voters right in the face.

 

For the healthcare system and for people personally, that would obviously be a horrible thing to have happen. Politically, for the US, I think we would benefit.

While I think it may be necessary, I just can't bring myself accepting this. I have friends and family that this would devastate and couldn't afford to have this passed. So I will fight like Hell that this isn't passed, for their sake and the sake of others in similar situations, especially the ones who didn't vote for this administration.

[Moiraine]

I grew up hearing horror stories about Canada healthcare and European healthcare. I now hear mostly about how they're model systems compared to the U.S.... I think it really depends on the sources and their motivations. The former were a lot of very conservative bent folks unsurprisingly, and it's become increasingly clear that universal coverage is simply not something they're interested in.

 

I still hear how bad they are from Republicans.

[QMany]