Archy1221 Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 47 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: Just because they don't want to fund Ukraine pensions, doesn't mean they cheer for Putin. This is the point others here don’t understand. 1 1 Link to comment
Scarlet Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 1 hour ago, DevoHusker said: The blank checks wording is a euphemism. You know that two things can be right? Just because they don't want to fund Ukraine pensions, doesn't mean they cheer for Putin. Most don't believe that will happen, but don't cheer for it either. In all practicality it doesn't work that way. Not funding Ukraine is, even if unwittingly, supporting Putin's revanchist intentions. This is the point others here don't understand. Sorry, hoping it won't happen or believing it won't happen historically hasn't turned out so well. The cost of those isolationist beliefs not only in lives but in dollars could be astronomical. https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/high-price-losing-ukraine "as Americans consider the costs of continuing to help Ukraine fight the Russians in the coming years, they deserve a careful consideration of the costs of allowing Russia to win. Those costs are much higher than most people imagine. To deter and defend against a renewed Russian threat following a full Russian victory in Ukraine the United States will have to deploy to Eastern Europe a sizable portion of its ground forces. The United States will have to station in Europe a large number of stealth aircraft. Building and maintaining those aircraft is intrinsically expensive, but challenges in manufacturing them rapidly will likely force the United States to make a terrible choice between keeping enough in Asia to defend Taiwan and its other Asian allies and deterring or defeating a Russian attack on a NATO ally. The entire undertaking will cost a fortune, and the cost will last as long as the Russian threat continues—potentially indefinitely." 2 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 There’s always a war to be primarily funded by the US indefinitely somewhere until the next one pops up, amirite! 1 1 Link to comment
commando Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: isn't that exactly what he claims "MSM" does? 2 1 Link to comment
Born N Bled Red Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 51 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Ha. Notice when he thought Biden said it his comments were. "When someone says something like that, that's it you gotta pull 'em." Then when he finds out Trump said it, he's like, "Oh, so Trump just slipped up." 1 1 Link to comment
ZRod Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 9 hours ago, DevoHusker said: The blank checks wording is a euphemism. You know that two things can be right? Just because they don't want to fund Ukraine pensions, doesn't mean they cheer for Putin. Most don't believe that will happen, but don't cheer for it either. The overwhelming majority of the billions sent to Ukraine is direct military and humanitarian aid, not cash. The cash that has been paid funds all kind of things to sustain daily life in the country: first responders, teachers, healthcare, housing for displaced people, etc. And yes it does help support pensions, because guess what, if those old pensioners don't get their money they will be homeless or starving, and die. 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 54 minutes ago, ZRod said: The overwhelming majority of the billions sent to Ukraine is direct military and humanitarian aid, not cash. The cash that has been paid funds all kind of things to sustain daily life in the country: first responders, teachers, healthcare, housing for displaced people, etc. And yes it does help support pensions, because guess what, if those old pensioners don't get their money they will be homeless or starving, and die. As we've discussed before, I understand all of that. The EU and NATO needs to step up before I would see it continue 1 Link to comment
ZRod Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 42 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: As we've discussed before, I understand all of that. The EU and NATO needs to step up before I would see it continue How much more should they step it up? Because Europe has sent a large amount of support to Ukraine. 1 Link to comment
teachercd Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Anyone that thinks that Russia is strong and/or will get strong is either scared of their own shadow or simply refusing to understand what is going on. Russia as we know it, is gone. I know people think they are not commies anymore, but they are and they are over. No one REALLY knew how f#&%ing weak they were after 1990, which makes sense, they are very closed off, but we see it now. After this "war" with Ukraine ends and Putin is gone, it is all over. What we are witnessing is something most of us have never seen, a total fall of a global power. In 25 years there will be college classes that cover "Soviet Russia 1990-2025" and it will chronicle what happened to those commies. They are gone, they will only be an oil producer, there will never be fear from them again. Most of us grew up with made for TV movies that scared us about the commies, so a lot of us are still "scared" those days are gone. They are done. 2 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 1 hour ago, ZRod said: How much more should they step it up? Because Europe has sent a large amount of support to Ukraine. I don't think that's accurate. We all posted stats a couple of weeks ago. Pretty sure we have donated more than all the E U combined. But I might have misremembered. Will check. 1 1 Link to comment
teachercd Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: I don't think that's accurate. We all posted stats a couple of weeks ago. Pretty sure we have donated more than all the E U combined. But I might have misremembered. Will check. In the end, Europe, since that is where the fighting is, should be sending triple if not more than what the US if sending. 1 3 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/ The combined European union has given about the same amount as the US, albeit a little more. Link to comment
ZRod Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 2 hours ago, DevoHusker said: I don't think that's accurate. We all posted stats a couple of weeks ago. Pretty sure we have donated more than all the E U combined. But I might have misremembered. Will check. 1 hour ago, DevoHusker said: https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/ The combined European union has given about the same amount as the US, albeit a little more. Sure, we are giving more in aggregate but that's not really a far comparison when the US has a larger economy/budget/ability to give. Adjusted as a percentage of GDP the EU as a whole would be out pacing the US, and there are several individual European countries that are giving more than the US as well. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/ 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, ZRod said: Sure, we are giving more in aggregate but that's not really a far comparison when the US has a larger economy/budget/ability to give. Adjusted as a percentage of GDP the EU as a whole would be out pacing the US, and there are several individual European countries that are giving more than the US as well. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/ Yes. Points you/me have discussed previously. I think we should curtail the amount we send. You don't. Salud. Edit: I think it was @commando sorry 2 Link to comment
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