Trump Legal Troubles

[Scarlet]

"Judge finds the Trump and his sons liable for fraud.  How this is bad for Biden"

 

- The New York Times (probably)

 

 

[ZRod]

 

[Danny Bateman]

Fraud King for God Emperor 2024!

[BigRedBuster]

The guy has been a fraud his entire life and so many people have fallen for it. 

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

[Archy1221]

59 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

 

I have a question for anyone here who does commercial real estate as I only know the single family home process.   
 

When Trump goes to get a loan on one of his properties (mortgage), doesn’t the lender have to do its due diligence and accept the valuation being proposed?   I guess what I mean is if I want to get a HELOC, the bank tells me what my house is worth, unless I come in with an appraisal and that has to be done with a bank approved appraiser.  And the loan can’t be finalized until the bank says “yes we agree on valuation” 

 

Doesn’t this same process happen (albeit in a more complex form probably) on commercial real estate?  If so, how is a lender a party to fraud committed by the borrower?    I assume I’m missing something here which is why I’m asking. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

I have a question for anyone here who does commercial real estate as I only know the single family home process.   
 

When Trump goes to get a loan on one of his properties (mortgage), doesn’t the lender have to do its due diligence and accept the valuation being proposed?   I guess what I mean is if I want to get a HELOC, the bank tells me what my house is worth, unless I come in with an appraisal and that has to be done with a bank approved appraiser.  And the loan can’t be finalized until the bank says “yes we agree on valuation” 

 

Doesn’t this same process happen (albeit in a more complex form probably) on commercial real estate?  If so, how is a lender a party to fraud committed by the borrower?    I assume I’m missing something here which is why I’m asking. 

I have purchased commercial real estate before and yes, the bank typically does an appraisal (that you pay for) and they decide if they are going to loan against it or not.  

 

I don't know exactly what type of loans these are for.  It's possible the loans weren't actually for the purchase of a specific property.  Maybe it's some type of operating loan for the organization and the real estate was simply put up as collateral for the loan.  Still, typically, they bank should still have an appraisal done.  I would be interested in knowing why they weren't on these properties.  My guess is that he claims he's worth 10 billion and asks for a loan for 3 billion and they look and say..."it's going to cost so much to appraise everything, he's obviously over collateralized....let's give him the loan".  Which....F them if that's what they did.

 

Here's my take.  Trump clearly lied about the valuations of the properties on legal documents and that's a crime.  I'm perfectly fine with him getting any punishment that comes with that.  It's also clear that the banks didn't do their due diligence and have an appraisal done.  I'm also perfectly fine that they got screwed.  There is no way the typical American could get a similar loan without that being done.  And....I typically have no sympathy for a friggen bank.

[Archy1221]

14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have purchased commercial real estate before and yes, the bank typically does an appraisal (that you pay for) and they decide if they are going to loan against it or not.  

 

I don't know exactly what type of loans these are for.  It's possible the loans weren't actually for the purchase of a specific property.  Maybe it's some type of operating loan for the organization and the real estate was simply put up as collateral for the loan.  Still, typically, they bank should still have an appraisal done.  I would be interested in knowing why they weren't on these properties.  My guess is that he claims he's worth 10 billion and asks for a loan for 3 billion and they look and say..."it's going to cost so much to appraise everything, he's obviously over collateralized....let's give him the loan".  Which....F them if that's what they did.

 

Here's my take.  Trump clearly lied about the valuations of the properties on legal documents and that's a crime.  I'm perfectly fine with him getting any punishment that comes with that.  It's also clear that the banks didn't do their due diligence and have an appraisal done.  I'm also perfectly fine that they got screwed.  There is no way the typical American could get a similar loan without that being done.  And....I typically have no sympathy for a friggen bank.

Ok, thanks for the feedback and input.  
 

I figured I wasn’t too far off on my thoughts.  

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have purchased commercial real estate before and yes, the bank typically does an appraisal (that you pay for) and they decide if they are going to loan against it or not.  

 

I don't know exactly what type of loans these are for.  It's possible the loans weren't actually for the purchase of a specific property.  Maybe it's some type of operating loan for the organization and the real estate was simply put up as collateral for the loan.  Still, typically, they bank should still have an appraisal done.  I would be interested in knowing why they weren't on these properties.  My guess is that he claims he's worth 10 billion and asks for a loan for 3 billion and they look and say..."it's going to cost so much to appraise everything, he's obviously over collateralized....let's give him the loan".  Which....F them if that's what they did.

 

Here's my take.  Trump clearly lied about the valuations of the properties on legal documents and that's a crime.  I'm perfectly fine with him getting any punishment that comes with that.  It's also clear that the banks didn't do their due diligence and have an appraisal done.  I'm also perfectly fine that they got screwed.  There is no way the typical American could get a similar loan without that being done.  And....I typically have no sympathy for a friggen bank.

Sorry one more question on the property tax side of things.   Isn’t it up to the county to figure out their own assessment for tax reasons on commercial just like happens with residential?  And a person can fight the assessed value but the county can say go pound sand cause this is what we decided.   So if a county’s assessed tax value is artificially low, that would be a county assessors issue if that is all the case.  

[Lorewarn]

Generally speaking I would say it's pretty safe to assume a lot of winking and looking the other way and back scratching happens all across the board at that level of wealth.

[BigRedBuster]

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Sorry one more question on the property tax side of things.   Isn’t it up to the county to figure out their own assessment for tax reasons on commercial just like happens with residential?  And a person can fight the assessed value but the county can say go pound sand cause this is what we decided.   So if a county’s assessed tax value is artificially low, that would be a county assessors issue if that is all the case.  

 

Yes, typically the assessed value is somewhat lower than what the actual value is...but not always.  However, nowhere close to this discrepancy.  I built a pretty big building in 2017 and the county has been trying their best to keep the assessed value as close to or higher than what I built it for.

 

These properties are NOT at the value he claims they are.  That's the simple fact.  He knew he was lying about it on legal documents and that's a crime.  There isn't any...blaming everyone else here.  The guy has been a complete fraud his entire life and now it's all coming home to roost no matter if his worshipers are upset about it or not.

[Archy1221]

35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yes, typically the assessed value is somewhat lower than what the actual value is...but not always.  However, nowhere close to this discrepancy.  I built a pretty big building in 2017 and the county has been trying their best to keep the assessed value as close to or higher than what I built it for.

 

These properties are NOT at the value he claims they are.  That's the simple fact.  He knew he was lying about it on legal documents and that's a crime.  There isn't any...blaming everyone else here.  The guy has been a complete fraud his entire life and now it's all coming home to roost no matter if his worshipers are upset about it or not.

I’m not sure what was funny but 

 

I think we all assume correctly that Trump Org and probably every developer)  wants the highest property value possible for loan leverage and lowest possible for property tax purposes.  And those two things are at opposites.   
The questions become why wasn’t this investigated and charged for the past 30 years because the judge made it seem like a pretty open and shut case, and will a criminal case now move forward considering how open and shut the  civil case apparently was.   

[TGHusker]

And we thought a NCAA death penalty was hard to face.     More on what this can mean for Trump Inc: 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12566431/Trump-tower-golf-club-judge-new-york-ruling.html

 

 

Quote

 

Donald Trump could lose control of Trump Tower, his Westchester golf club and other New York properties after a judge ruled that he lied about his wealth for years and committed fraud by submitting false valuations to secure loans.

New York Judge Arthur Engoron ruled that Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House, after prosecutors charged he inflated property valuations with lenders and diminished them with tax authorities.

The decision could end the former president's control over his flagship Trump Building at 40 Wall Street in Lower Manhattan and his iconic residence Trump Tower.

Trump could also lose his family estate and his golf club in Westchester County. 

He would no longer be able to sell off any assets or use them to secure loans. If they are sold by the court, Trump would not see any returns until debts and liabilities have been paid.

Experts have called this decision a 'corporate death penalty'

 

 

This quote is priceless:   

Quote

'Can you imagine ruling against me for having done business perfectly, and yet letting people go on a rampage on the sidewalks of New York? 

Quote

 

Judge Engoron's ruling was a victory for New York Attorney General Letitia James in her lawsuit against Trump. His decision effectively decided that no trial was needed to determine that the former president had fraudulently secured favorable terms on loans and insurance deals.

James has argued that Trump inflated the value of his properties by as much as $2.2 billion and is seeking a penalty of about $250 million. 

The judge's order will not dissolve Trump's company but will impact its operations. Trump can appeal.

The trial will determine the size of the penalty Trump will face. 

But the order did cancel the business certificates that allow some of Trump’s New York properties to operate, which is what could affect his control of those prominent Trump-brand properties.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

The mostest greatest business man the world has ever seen.