DOJ Initial Russia Hearings

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, MNBigRedNorth said:

I highly doubt Mueller is even in the building!  And if Mueller didn't like the summary, he would have been out in the public already.  He knew he had nothing about a month or two after he was on the job!

No, a professional works to get the full report out. 

[Notre Dame Joe]

8 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

What you recall is terrible sourcing. Try the link above that uses actual facts and references to show how much Obama did or did not keep his promises. The facts say he followed through for the most part. 

Those aren't very helpful because they Snopes-like can determine what counts as a "promise" and ignore things like Congressional approval (Obama had a Super Majority unheard of for Republicans) and Resistance Judges issuing nationwide injunctions.  Again it's hard to think of a major policy position Obama didn't flop on.  Even Socialism, there was a time when his lackeys claimed it was offensive to call Obama a socialist. 

 

7 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Did you happen to see my thread devoted to The Cult of Trump?  I list 10 cult defining factors that make Trump's campaign and following - cult like.   I, too, in my college days came very close to betting into a cult that started in Sioux Falls and ended up in Florida.  Some of my good college friends ended up in Florida wt the cult.

Was he writing books when teachers literally had their students dancing songs of praise of Obama?

 

2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I know it's complete speculation on my part.  But, I keep getting this picture in my head of Barr and Mueller in a very heated argument over what should be redacted.  Barr wants something redacted that condemns the President.  Mueller threatens to go public if he redacts it.  

 

 

Hey we agree on something.  It's time for Mueller to cook or get off the pot. 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Those aren't very helpful because they Snopes-like can determine what counts as a "promise" and ignore things like Congressional approval (Obama had a Super Majority unheard of for Republicans) and Resistance Judges issuing nationwide injunctions.  Again it's hard to think of a major policy position Obama didn't flop on.  Even Socialism, there was a time when his lackeys claimed it was offensive to call Obama a socialist. 

 

Was he writing books when teachers literally had their students dancing songs of praise of Obama?

 

Hey we agree on something.  It's time for Mueller to cook or get off the pot. 

So your memory is a more reliable source than Politifact? Thats some confidence lol

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Hey we agree on something.  It's time for Mueller to cook or get off the pot. 

And time for Barr (Trump) to stop stalling. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, MNBigRedNorth said:

My answer to you is that Politifact is useless.  You know it's ALL opinion based on their view things from the MSM.  Please tell me what political reporting in the MSM is useful today.  Lies are told by the MSM so that the FBI can use that lie to obtain a FISA warrant.  Go figure!  Anyone that thinks MSM reporting is based on facts needs to rethink that whole paradigm.  

 

Then find me a fact. Any fact. Tell me why you believe it's true, and why anyone else should agree. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

12 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I haven't typed the list in years but I recall Obama's serial flips included surveillance (ha), Iraq, gas prices, healthcare, deficit, and gay marriage. To be fair his greatest achievement was realizing he needed to leave Bush's security protocols in place.

 

To be fair, Barack Obama wasn't anywhere near the liberal threat the conservatives made him out to be. In another time he could have been a moderate Republican. It wasn't a surprise, since he ran as a centrist. Republicans could have supported Obama's moderate policies -- even taken credit for pushing him towards the center. But they just couldn't let anyone with a D next to his name succeed.

 

As long as you're here.....how has Donald Trump helped the little guy? Please show your homework.

[Notre Dame Joe]

10 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

To be fair, Barack Obama wasn't anywhere near the liberal threat the conservatives made him out to be. In another time he could have been a moderate Republican. It wasn't a surprise, since he ran as a centrist. Republicans could have supported Obama's moderate policies -- even taken credit for pushing him towards the center. But they just couldn't let anyone with a D next to his name succeed.

 

As long as you're here.....how has Donald Trump helped the little guy? Please show your homework.

 

I don't recall Obama being very moderate at all except in the 2008 general.  IF he's less left now it's only because his disciples ran the party to the hard left green new deal.

 

Say what's happening with the keystone pipeline nowadays?

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

I don't recall Obama being very moderate at all except in the 2008 general.  IF he's less left now it's only because his disciples ran the party to the hard left green new deal.

 

Say what's happening with the keystone pipeline nowadays?

Why are you bringing up a pipeline that would create almost no jobs, give zero oil to the US, and give a foreign corporation eminent domain over U.S. citizens' property?

[BigRedBuster]

3 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

I don't recall Obama being very moderate at all except in the 2008 general.  IF he's less left now it's only because his disciples ran the party to the hard left green new deal.

 

Say what's happening with the keystone pipeline nowadays?

Why do you support a foreign government using eminent domain to take property away from Americans so they can export their oil?

 

why is that a conservative view point?

 

and, why is fighting against it an extreme liberal view point?

[Moiraine]

3 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I don't recall Obama being very moderate at all except in the 2008 general.

 

 

That's because you don't know what moderate or left mean.

[commando]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

That's because you don't know what moderate or left mean.

anything that isn't in lockstep with trump is extreme liberalism. 

[TGHusker]

14 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Was he writing books when teachers literally had their students dancing songs of praise of Obama?

Nice diversion.  It applies to both.  The singing of 'praise songs' to / about Obama was every bit cult like as what we see today.  I was critical of it then.  Obama's cult like persona started wt the 2004 convention and moved forward as the future Dem messiah including the palace like facade at the Denver outdoor convention and the soaring rehtoric that oceans would stop rising, etc, etc.  However, we are talking about now. 

Recognize what is happening now - you can't correct the past by dodging the current.   I would say that the Trump cult is stronger and more resistant to change than what I saw 10 years ago. Probably because it is further to the right than Obama's support was to the left.  The Berine fraction had not yet surfaced. Obama was to the right of Bernie and many of the Dems running for office today.

[Guy Chamberlin]

6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

I don't recall Obama being very moderate at all except in the 2008 general.  IF he's less left now it's only because his disciples ran the party to the hard left green new deal.

 

 

Of course you don't recall. That was my point. 

 

In fact, upon taking office Obama immediately reassured the financial community by appointing Goldman Sach execs and Wall Street bluebloods to run the economy. He bailed out the banks and when it came time to enact fiscal reform in the wake of the disaster, Obama played it right down the middle with measures that sounded good but had no teeth. Obama grumbled about the Bush tax cuts, but did not fight the Republicans when it came time to renew them. Single Payer Healthcare was left. The Affordable Care Act was dead center, a proposal that had been approved by both Republicans and the health care industry for decades. His Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland was hailed as a non-controversial moderate --- Garland was John Roberts highly respected mentor and would have sailed through any other Congress in our history.  Find any environment or civil rights initiative from Obama, and I'll find you something equivalent from the Reagan administration. 

 

Obama never stopped fighting a drone war on terrorists. It was low-profile but highly successful, and sometimes horrific when bombs strayed into unsuspecting wedding parties. Obama violated Pakistan air space and a corrupt Pakistani government to kill Osama bin Laden and dump his body in the ocean, a move that should have had conservatives dancing in the streets. As you mentioned, Obama also kept a lot of the Bush administration's security measures in place, including our controversial international rendition programs. Some of this quietly vexed liberals. Progressives never considered Obama one of them. Hillary Clinton was even more centrist and hawkish, but perhaps that's another story. 

 

So it's no surprise that you have the idea of Obama's "disciples" all wrong. The hard left is Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the Green New Deal, Medicaid for All, and Free College Tuition. Attack those ideas all you want. Just know that far more Americans support them then either party wants to admit. Obama always had a chance to go "hard left" and never did. Not even close. Hence no hard left disciples. Even in the safety of private life he has avoided endorsing the progressive wing. His preferred successor, Joe Biden, is moderation with a free shoulder massage. 

 

In case you hadn't noticed, DNC leadership is circling the wagons and trying to protect their turf from their own left wing. Obama remains the standard because of his centrist appeal.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Ooops. Almost forgot.

 

After three years in office, Barack Obama had earned a 100% rating from the NRA, based on doing nothing to limit American's ownership of guns.

 

As the 2012 election geared up, Wayne LaPierre was forced to tell his followers that this was a trick; Barack Obama was trying to lull them into a second term, at which point he would unveil his true agenda of taking their guns away. 

 

Fear & bullls#!t: the Republicans' best friends.

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

One of the issues I think is that the GOP allowed the chasm between what they told their voters and what they actually believed to get a bit too wide. Hence, someone calling Obama a moderate fundamentally seems wrong to a GOP voter, despite the fact he actually pushed for several things that should actually appeal to conservatives. He badly wanted to form bipartisan consensus in Washington, especially early on, but the door was slammed in his face every time.

 

Certainly Republican politicians would prefer the policies of Obama to those of someone like Sanders, though they'd never dare admit it. They'd lead you to believe there's no daylight between the two, because that makes it easier to wrangle votes.

 

Another good example is the ACA. You'd be hard-pressed to find a more centrist approach to healthcare reform - a market-oriented boilerplate copy of Romneycare that stemmed from GOP plans in the 90s. But Republicans have been neck deep in anti-ACA propaganda so long they can't admit it. But painting it as some socialist takeover of our healthcare has left them no room to offer a conservative alternative. The only thing more conservative would be what they truly want - eliminating Medicare and Medicaid altogether and totally privatizing healthcare. So they just keep complaining about the ACA with no alternative in mind.

 

The entire thing is a GOP tactic to make their own party and ideas seem a lot less extreme and unpopular than they actually are. Obama and the ACA have to be socialist nightmares so they can save us with their reasonable, moderate ideas - instead of admitting Obama/ACA are middle of the road and they're way far out on the rightward fringe.