The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Landlord]

4 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

If you sit passively by when you could have done something to prevent the steaming turd then maybe commando is right 

 

 

There's a number of built in fallacies to this argument, imo.

 

The first being that voting isn't the only thing you can do. Someone who doesn't do anything except vote for the D candidate has done less than someone who's a community organizer, responsible journalist/entertainment media personality, has good respectful challenging conversations with conservative friends/family, etc., and doesn't vote. ESPECIALLY if you live in one of the MANY states where your vote doesn't actually matter. Like, everyone living in Nebraska voting for Biden, great. Except not really - your vote is worthless. The reward of the entire state is going to Trump. No matter what.

 

Second being that not voting at all is exercising an action and is not necessarily passive. It's only passive if it's out of apathy or indifference. You surely believe this in other contexts where you'd refuse to play by a forced ultimatum someone is giving you. If voting were compulsory, and you didn't vote, that wouldn't be passive, that would a rebellious act. 

 

Third, voting isn't an expression of free speech. The Supreme Court has even said so. The two aren't fundamentally related, and thus you can vote for Baskin Robbins and still have every legal and ethical right to voice your displeasure. 

[FrantzHardySwag]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

Don't forget that feeling. Because Biden is temporary, but the movement Bernie started can last longer than these last two election cycles if people like you demand more of those candidates.

 

I can't convince you to vote for the bandaid that Biden is, so fine. I respect what you see in Bernie's principles. Don't give up hope.

I’m starting to think people are more loyal to Bernie than his actual platform. There is a reason things like $15 minimum wage showed up in Biden’s platform. There’s also a reason that Bernie will endorse Biden. As soon as 1 year from now we can see some of Bernie’s ideas come to fruition. It would be dumb to give all that up because you can’t get Bernies entire agenda. Vote Biden, vote progressive Senate/House candidates to keep the heat on Biden, you’re a hell of a lot closer to Bernies vision for America with that situation then you are with Trump. You know how much closer to Medicare for all we are if Biden expands a public option? That’s a much easier jump for the next president/congress/senate to make then starting over from scratch post Trump. Do you know how much closer to free 4 year college we are with Biden’s plan for free public college for families that make under 125k? There is a bridge to many of the things Bernie has proposed, why wouldn’t we take it? 

[RedDenver]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

That's my feelings.

 

I think what you are seeing is the immaturity of the people in this group.  Hopefully they mature and it works itself out.

Calling them immature is one way to try to convince them I guess.

 

1 hour ago, Nebfanatic said:

Whoever is penning that letter must be in a pretty privileged position if return to normalcy isn't motivating enough. People are literally dying due to the inept and corrupt leadership 

If we're speculating then maybe they are people who were not privileged and suffered under the previous "normalcy". You're asking them to actively vote to continue their own suffering. Maybe they will vote for Biden because they're doing it for the greater good. Or maybe they won't vote because they don't want to actively vote to continue their own suffering. Or maybe they'll vote for Trump so that others will also suffer and maybe listen to them. There's a lot of maybes out there.

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, commando said:

that steaming turd is going to leave big turds in the supreme court for the rest of their lifetimes if he gets reelected.   good luck getting a progressive agenda through the court battles anytime in the next....30-40 years.

 

This one bothers me to no end. I'm not sure if progressives just flat-out refuse to accept that another couple Kavanaughs on SCOTUS instead of RBG and Breyer make their policy preferences unattainable or just don't care, but either is frustrating for someone who just wants to scratch out some progress rather than going backwards.

 

But there's a reason Republicans have scratched out so many state leg seats and got in the position to have unified control of the federal government and confirm hundreds of judges under Trump - and it's not just Democratic incompetence. As a party Republicans are far more comfortable swallowing their pride, cutting their losses, realizing when they have to compromise and supporting their guy. Democrats are less uniformly likely to fall in line and support their nominees and are more apt to be dissatisfied enough to sit out or vote third party if their first choice doesn't prevail.

 

Like I've said before, I'm not going to shame anyone for exercising their right however they see fit - or not. But it does suck that the GOP has built-in advantages in terms of base support of their nominees and geographic distribution in several of the swing states that actually determine elections. At times I wish Dems shared more of their strong partisan voting loyalty because I think Dem governance leads to substantially better outcomes.

[Nebfanatic]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

Calling them immature is one way to try to convince them I guess.

 

If we're speculating then maybe they are people who were not privileged and suffered under the previous "normalcy". You're asking them to actively vote to continue their own suffering. Maybe they will vote for Biden because they're doing it for the greater good. Or maybe they won't vote because they don't want to actively vote to continue their own suffering. Or maybe they'll vote for Trump so that others will also suffer and maybe listen to them. There's a lot of maybes out there.

Not buying it. If that makes you feel better that's fine but Trump causes more suffering for the underprivileged communities than any President in recent memory. Trump being president has grave consequences and we are witnessing them on a mass scale right now. Anyone who can say they don't care to do everything in their power to get him out of office has the privilege to say that. Anecdotal evidence is pretty weak but from what I have seen the underprivileged community understands the danger Trump poses far more than anyone else

[BigRedBuster]

8 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Calling them immature is one way to try to convince them I guess.

Well, it is.  The attitude of...."if I don't get my way I'm done" is a very immature attitude.  And....we have seen that from Trump people of all ages.  It doesn't indicate necessarily anything about age, even though the Bernie people tend to be younger.  The attitude can be at any age.

[B.B. Hemingway]

I like Joe Biden. He belongs nowhere near the oval office at this point in his life. I can't imagine the most stressful job in the world mixes well with the onset of dementia.

[Ratt Mhule]

7 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

This one bothers me to no end. I'm not sure if progressives just flat-out refuse to accept that another couple Kavanaughs on SCOTUS instead of RBG and Breyer make their policy preferences unattainable or just don't care, but either is frustrating for someone who just wants to scratch out some progress rather than going backwards.

 

But there's a reason Republicans have scratched out so many state leg seats and got in the position to have unified control of the federal government and confirm hundreds of judges under Trump - and it's not just Democratic incompetence. As a party Republicans are far more comfortable swallowing their pride, cutting their losses, realizing when they have to compromise and supporting their guy. Democrats are less uniformly likely to fall in line and support their nominees and are more apt to be dissatisfied enough to sit out or vote third party if their first choice doesn't prevail.

 

Like I've said before, I'm not going to shame anyone for exercising their right however they see fit - or not. But it does suck that the GOP has built-in advantages in terms of base support of their nominees and geographic distribution in several of the swing states that actually determine elections. At times I wish Dems shared more of their strong partisan voting loyalty because I think Dem governance leads to substantially better outcomes.

Thats because the republicans have the same policy preferences as one another. So while their choice for president or congress may differ with another person, the policies remain the same for all choices. Tax cuts, deregulation, immigration. Those are the things repubs care about and all politicians push for those things. That is why it is easier to get behind a candidate. Well hes not the guy I wanted but he will push for the same things as my guy. 
 

For the dems its different. Lets face it Danny, you and I have different politics. We want different things. And the things we want that are the same we disagree on how to get there. We should not be in the same party. The fact that we are in the same party creates issues. Thats just the way it is and it will be like that until we either have our own party or this party takes us seriously. 

[BigRedBuster]

16 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

I like Joe Biden. He belongs nowhere near the oval office at this point in his life. I can't imagine the most stressful job in the world mixes well with the onset of dementia.

Yeah....We've witnessed that for the last 3+ years.  It's sad that this is what we have to decide from.  But, I'll choose to change from one delusional idiot corrupt crook to an old guy that says some odd things every once in a while.

[commando]

20 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

I like Joe Biden. He belongs nowhere near the oval office at this point in his life. I can't imagine the most stressful job in the world mixes well with the onset of dementia.

it worked for Reagan

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Yeah....We've witnessed that for the last 3+ years.  It's sad that this is what we have to decide from.  But, I'll choose to change from one delusional idiot corrupt crook to an old guy that says some odd things every once in a while.

 

It's well established on here that I'm a conservative, yet no fan of Trump's.... But, I just couldn't vote for Biden. Not this version of him. It isn't going to get better

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, commando said:

it worked for Reagan

 

Lol. I suppose.

[Ratt Mhule]

1 minute ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

It's well established on here that I'm a conservative, yet no fan of Trump's.... But, I just couldn't vote for Biden. Not this version of him. It isn't going to get better

He doesnt have dementia. Hes perfectly

fine. Hes just old and senile...wait am I doing this right? 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just now, Frott Scost said:

He doesnt have dementia. Hes perfectly

fine. Hes just old and senile...wait am I doing this right? 

 

Luckily, for Joe, he won't be elected. Trump's base is too big, and Trump is going to body him in the debates.

[commando]

9 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

if you live in one of the MANY states where your vote doesn't actually matter. Like, everyone living in Nebraska voting for Biden, great. Except not really - your vote is worthless. The reward of the entire state is going to Trump. No matter what.

 

 

 

 

thats complete B.S.   it is self defeating.   there might be more then enough people to overthrow the trump vote if they don't have that attitude.   that attitude encourages people to give up before the election even if there are enough votes there to beat trump.   you have to go out and vote like your vote matters because maybe it will matter.