The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[commando]

Just now, BlitzFirst said:

 

It's not a take...it's how the main stream media labeled Bernie...as a challenge to the establishment.  Just google a bit...we didn't make this stuff up...the media did.

wait a minute...you are ravaging the media for not attacking biden....but quoting the media to justify you calling career politician an outsider.    i have no idea what is a solid base to talk from with trumpers or progressives.  the truth with both is whatever the heck they say it is and everyone else is lying.  is that the truth?

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

it is illogical to believe that me not discussing Trump's allegations at the same time as Bidens means I think they're OK or that he gets a pass.

 

See, now, THIS is a strawman. Because you're representing this as my stance, and I haven't said this.

[TGHusker]

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

What you constructed was a strawman because it misrepresented the original post that started this whole thing off...and now, you're not attacking the original post...you're attacking something I didn't even bring up...and you're attacking that I DIDN'T bring it up and making it seem like that negates my original post or that I'm somehow less concerned with Trumps allegations

 

How is that not a strawman again?

 

Because you not discussing the allegations against Trump while discussing the one allegation against Biden is a fact. It's demonstrably provable and not an opinion, nor is it something I'm misrepresenting about you.

 

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Well...actually, states and local communities do have the constitutional right to do what they are doing.  It's been fought out in the supreme court.  LINK

 

 

Boy....if you don't think the government has the right to do what it's doing, you must really hate Trump.

 

Well you didn't really answer the question. I was asking what you think Trump can do by decree. 

 

That article discusses federalism without really using the word.  The individual states have basic police power that exceeds that of Trump.  Andyou  If you finish the article you'd find that the court as the power to review government actions taken in the name of public health.  So I'm asking where you draw the line, or if you'd even draw one.

[BigRedBuster]

6 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

Well you didn't really answer the question. I was asking what you think Trump can do by decree. 

 

That article discusses federalism without really using the word.  The individual states have basic police power that exceeds that of Trump.  Andyou  If you finish the article you'd find that the court as the power to review government actions taken in the name of public health.  So I'm asking where you draw the line, or if you'd even draw one.

I'm not the one that supports a President who thinks he's a King with ultimate power to do whatever he wants.  Where do you draw the line?

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, BlitzFirst said:

Trumps allegations are not in the news right now.

 

Of course they are. A simple google search would show you developments in just the past month.

 

 

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

One woman whose story has changed three times and who won't even name Biden personally in her allegation vs. 25 women who have made the same and worse allegations against Trump, some of whom have filed lawsuits against him which are currently winding through the courts...

 

I mean, if I'm Joe Biden, I'm OK with those odds.

 

It's really weird to see Bernie supporters constantly talking about Reade and not mentioning Trump's numerous allegations at all. 

 

 

 

It's not weird to see it talked about in the context of how it will play out in the election. This conversation is contextual to that, it's not happening in a vacuum where all we're talking about is the horror of sexual assault. We all know about Trump's evil sexual history; and we know that it didn't stop him from getting elected and doesn't seem to matter to his base.

 

Biden is in a no-win scenario here. If Trump brings it up, say during a debate, Biden can't retort with, "You've been charged with sexual assault by 25 women" because it will make him look like a guilty hypocrite who's deflecting. He also can't ignore it and focus on issues, because it will also make him look guilty and deflecting.

 

Edit: It's essentially a cloud hanging over Biden that makes no 'winning' way to address it or not, and also takes away his ability to a large extent to attack Trump on the basis of character.

[knapplc]

12 minutes ago, Landlord said:

It's not weird to see it talked about in the context of how it will play out in the election. This conversation is contextual to that, it's not happening in a vacuum where all we're talking about is the horror of sexual assault. We all know about Trump's evil sexual history; and we know that it didn't stop him from getting elected and doesn't seem to matter to his base.

 

Biden is in a no-win scenario here. If Trump brings it up, say during a debate, Biden can't retort with, "You've been charged with sexual assault by 25 women" because it will make him look like a guilty hypocrite who's deflecting. He also can't ignore it and focus on issues, because it will also make him look guilty and deflecting.

 

Edit: It's essentially a cloud hanging over Biden that makes no 'winning' way to address it or not, and also takes away his ability to a large extent to attack Trump on the basis of character.

 

Disagree. For Trump's base, who will vote for him no matter what he does (even shooting a guy on 5th Avenue), no, none of these allegations matter.

 

But for the rest of the electorate, character matters. Clinton didn't hit on that facet of Trump remotely enough, and look where that got her.

 

Biden can attack Trump on this line because Trump is more vulnerable. It's weird that you think this is a no-win situation for Biden - this is one of the most tissue-thin allegations by a person whose credibility is easily shredded, compared to the dozens of professional, respected women who have accused Trump. 

 

It is bizarre to think this paralyzes Biden. It's even more bizarre to wring hands over Reade's accusation and ignore those against Trump.

[Landlord]

7 minutes ago, knapplc said:

But for the rest of the electorate, character matters. Clinton didn't hit on that facet of Trump remotely enough, and look where that got her.

 

Yeah, because she said women have the right to be believed, while being married to a husband with multiple credible rape allegations and one essentially proven and documented infidelity assault against him. I'm sure her advisors rightly told her not to because she would get skewered over the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Biden can attack Trump on this line because Trump is more vulnerable. It's weird that you think this is a no-win situation for Biden - this is one of the most tissue-thin allegations by a person whose credibility is easily shredded, compared to the dozens of professional, respected women who have accused Trump. 

 

It is bizarre to think this paralyzes Biden. It's even more bizarre to wring hands over Reade's accusation and ignore those against Trump.

 

 

 

Biden is also on record with a, "believe women" sort of message. With that established, you think he can respond to Trump saying, "I never did that, and the woman accusing me of assaulting her is doing this for political reasons and is pro-Russia and has no credibility and shouldn't be believed, and also Trump buddy you've assaulted lots of women", and it will work out well for him? 

 

Most of the people in our country don't dive deep into the facts and reporting on these things. They are "informed" by headlines and sound bytes. They'll hear Biden sounding like a guilty defensive hypocrite, or they'll see headlines saying, "Biden gets defensive over sexual assault allegation."

[FrantzHardySwag]

It's crazy how much an allegation can stir things up. I've said before if Biden did it, he should drop out or be forced out of the race. But if he didn't do it, then that's a pretty f#&%ed up smear. At the end of the day we will never know, this won't get any less muddy. It's just he said/she said. I would never be comfortable saying she's totally lying with the evidence provided, but I'm also not comfortable calling Biden a rapist with the evidence provided. Where does that leave us?

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Landlord said:

Biden is also on record with a, "believe women" sort of message. With that established, you think he can respond to Trump saying, "I never did that, and the woman accusing me of assaulting her is doing this for political reasons and is pro-Russia and has no credibility and shouldn't be believed, and also Trump buddy you've assaulted lots of women", and it will work out well for him? 

 

Most of the people in our country don't dive deep into the facts and reporting on these things. They are "informed" by headlines and sound bytes. They'll hear Biden sounding like a guilty defensive hypocrite, or they'll see headlines saying, "Biden gets defensive over sexual assault allegation."

 

Guilty and defensive of... what?  Have you looked into Reade's allegations? 

 

Who is going to write that headline, when almost every major news outlet has looked into her story and passed?

 

Won't those same news outlets instead be reporting on the Trump allegations in the courts?

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

It's crazy how much an allegation can stir things up. I've said before if Biden did it, he should drop out or be forced out of the race. But if he didn't do it, then that's a pretty f#&%ed up smear. At the end of the day we will never know, this won't get any less muddy. It's just he said/she said. I would never be comfortable saying she's totally lying with the evidence provided, but I'm also not comfortable calling Biden a rapist with the evidence provided. Where does that leave us?

 

Yeah... it's a strange stance. It seems @Landlord believes that someone -anyone- making any kind of allegation against Biden is paralyzing to him, and negates any character attack he could make on Trump.

 

If that was the case, Trump's gonna trot out two dozen people making all kinds of allegations against Biden and he's going to get reelected because... once those allegations are out there, they stick and there's nothing Biden can do. 

 

 

[Landlord]

I just googled "Trump Sexual Assault" news articles, here's what came up:

 

 

 

 

So no I don't think people will be covering Trump's assault charges in court when we get into general election campaign/debate time.

 

[Landlord]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

If that was the case, Trump's gonna trot out two dozen people making all kinds of allegations against Biden and he's going to get reelected because... once those allegations are out there, they stick and there's nothing Biden can do. 

 

I wouldn't put it past him, and if he does it, it will work. So.....yeah.