Racism - It's a real thing.

[StPaulHusker]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Eh. His explanation for his involvement is that he was separating the boys from the Black Israelites, but even accounting for his religious practices, drumming right in that MAGA kid's face probably wasn't the best method of separating those groups.

Given what he's been through and done for his country, I, personally, will give him wide latitude.

[knapplc]

22 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Given what he's been through and done for his country, I, personally, will give him wide latitude.

 

Even Veterans & Native Americans make mistakes, sometimes with the best of intentions.

[StPaulHusker]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Even Veterans & Native Americans make mistakes, sometimes with the best of intentions.

I have no problem with this.  I personally don't think this is one of those instances.  

[knapplc]

18 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I have no problem with this.  I personally don't think this is one of those instances.  

 

If his goal was to shepherd the kids away from the troublemakers, as he states, he should have spoken to them in a language they understand. Instead, he stood there with his drum inches from the MAGA kid, chanting.  That kid likely had no idea what Mr. Phillips' intentions were. 

 

 

[StPaulHusker]

Just now, knapplc said:

 

If his goal was to shepherd the kids away from the troublemakers, as he states, he should have spoken to them in a language they understand. Instead, he stood there with his drum inches from the MAGA kid, chanting.  That kid likely had no idea what Mr. Phillips' intentions were.

 

According to the teenagers prepared statement, he must have had an idea of what Mr. Phillips intentions were since he said he stood there to "defuse" the situation.  Albeit it was a misguided intention.  

 

We can do this all day if you would like.  Anything short of the elder coming out and saying that he wanted to purposefully instigate a fight with teenagers, my opinion won't change.

[StPaulHusker]

 

 

[teachercd]

20 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

 

According to the teenagers prepared statement, he must have had an idea of what Mr. Phillips intentions were since he said he stood there to "defuse" the situation.  Albeit it was a misguided intention.  

 

We can do this all day if you would like.  Anything short of the elder coming out and saying that he wanted to purposefully instigate a fight with teenagers, my opinion won't change.

That is kind of part of the problem.  Not changing for the sake of not changing.   I mean, it is pretty clear both people are the worst ever at trying to diffuse a situation.  They might as well have been yelling "I am not touching you, I am not touching you, I am not touching you" like little kids do in the back seat of a car on a road trip.

 

If anything, the more video that comes out (there was another really good one today that came out) show even more how most of us (myself included) really rushed to judgment on this.

 

 

[StPaulHusker]

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

That is kind of part of the problem.  Not changing for the sake of not changing.   I mean, it is pretty clear both people are the worst ever at trying to diffuse a situation.  They might as well have been yelling "I am not touching you, I am not touching you, I am not touching you" like little kids do in the back seat of a car on a road trip.

 

If anything, the more video that comes out (there was another really good one today that came out) show even more how most of us (myself included) really rushed to judgment on this.

 

 

Based on the additional hour long video that was posted here, I think I judged the teenagers accurately.  The unknown factor was the Black Israelites and their rhetoric.  I feel comfortable standing behind the elder in this case.

[teachercd]

4 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Based on the additional hour long video that was posted here, I think I judged the teenagers accurately.  The unknown factor was the Black Israelites and their rhetoric.  I feel comfortable standing behind the elder in this case.

I would stand behind him too...I wouldn't want that drum in my face.  

 

 

[StPaulHusker]

1 minute ago, teachercd said:

I would stand behind him too...I wouldn't want that drum in my face.  

That kid certainly showed he can withstand punishment for a while.

[Creed]

Just to add some more info to this ugly situation.  While not on the front lines, I have several friends that are Cov Cath alumni and/or their boys attend there currently and a couple were at the March 4 Life rally.  My son would have attended Cov Cath if not for a work relocation.  My friends were calling for the truth and both sides to be heard at the inception and were met with vile & condemning remarks.  The news headlines labeled the 17 year old as "mocking" "taunting" "intimidating".  I have seen twitter posts with the kid's picture that said "the most punchable face in America".  People attacking the kids said "he looked smug" or "he looked" this or that.  Do people know how wrong that is? 

 

He is 17 and most of the kids I knew that go to that school live a pretty sheltered life (middle to upper middle class) and in his statement said he had never encountered a protest situation.  He looked uncomfortable and just smiled for a couple seconds at the Indian Elder. His statement said by smiling he wanted the elder to know he meant no harm.  My son is 14 and in high school and I am 100% sure that if someone came up to him in that situation, he would have just stood there listening to the drum beat hoping an adult would step in and help.

 

What led to the elder and his drum were the black Hebrew group hurling insults at the boys waiting for their bus. Now, when you have 100 or so teens waiting around, I am sure they were not sitting there quietly admiring the scenery.  They probably were loud and to adults seemed like obnoxious teens. The black Hebrew groupl called the boys "crackers" "incest babies" "racist" and called one of the black Cov Cath students the N word.  In response, the boys asked an adult for permission to do school cheers.  Cov Cath is a school with a lot of school spirit.  This probably agitated others as well and that's when the elder intervened.  The indian elder's later account said he needed to step in to save the black Hebrews from the "beasts" (aka Cov Cath boys).

 

[teachercd]

56 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

That kid certainly showed he can withstand punishment for a while.

Haha!  No kidding!

[StPaulHusker]

30 minutes ago, Creed said:

Just to add some more info to this ugly situation.  While not on the front lines, I have several friends that are Cov Cath alumni and/or their boys attend there currently and a couple were at the March 4 Life rally.  My son would have attended Cov Cath if not for a work relocation.  My friends were calling for the truth and both sides to be heard at the inception and were met with vile & condemning remarks.  The news headlines labeled the 17 year old as "mocking" "taunting" "intimidating".  I have seen twitter posts with the kid's picture that said "the most punchable face in America".  People attacking the kids said "he looked smug" or "he looked" this or that.  Do people know how wrong that is? 

 

He is 17 and most of the kids I knew that go to that school live a pretty sheltered life (middle to upper middle class) and in his statement said he had never encountered a protest situation.  He looked uncomfortable and just smiled for a couple seconds at the Indian Elder. His statement said by smiling he wanted the elder to know he meant no harm.  My son is 14 and in high school and I am 100% sure that if someone came up to him in that situation, he would have just stood there listening to the drum beat hoping an adult would step in and help.

 

What led to the elder and his drum were the black Hebrew group hurling insults at the boys waiting for their bus. Now, when you have 100 or so teens waiting around, I am sure they were not sitting there quietly admiring the scenery.  They probably were loud and to adults seemed like obnoxious teens. The black Hebrew groupl called the boys "crackers" "incest babies" "racist" and called one of the black Cov Cath students the N word.  In response, the boys asked an adult for permission to do school cheers.  Cov Cath is a school with a lot of school spirit.  This probably agitated others as well and that's when the elder intervened.  The indian elder's later account said he needed to step in to save the black Hebrews from the "beasts" (aka Cov Cath boys).

 

 

So an adult was there with the teenagers?  

 

[Creed]

1 minute ago, StPaulHusker said:

 

So an adult was there with the teenagers?  

 

Yes, they got permission from a chaperone to do their school chants to drown out the racial slurs and other insults thrown at them.  Cov cath chants are not mean spirited in any fashion.  My guess is there were only so many adults per number of kids and there was obviously a lot going on (cant be everywhere all the time).  The interaction with the elder was only a minute or so and unfortunately the adult was not close enough to that interaction to step in.  In hindsight there probably should have been more adults around but Cov Cath and other Diocese of Covington schools have sent groups to DC for years without major incident (that I am aware of) (my kids have gone there btw) and felt the number of adults was appropriate.

 

My guess is the Diocese will have further guidelines for future DC trips.  That is, how students and chaperone should deal with protestors or people yelling anti-Catholic insults at them.

[Guy Chamberlin]

The Black Israelites were whackjobs, offensive to the core, saying crazy s#!t to both the Native Americans and the Covington kids. As Knapple mentioned, it's Westboro Baptist level agitation....it needs to be ignored, but it's hard. If you haven't watched the video with that context, you don't get the situation. Another day on the D.C. Mall. 

 

So it turns out the Covington kids were put in an awkward position and behaved with some restraint, but also looked like smug teenagers because that's who they are.

 

Phillips has admitted he was the one who stepped into the situation, and from my understanding he has absolved the kids from much of the mischaracterization that went on when the internet blew up with predictable outrage. He seems to be a genuine peacemaker. 

 

Maybe it should blow over, and I'm sure something outrageous is going to happen this afternoon to push it off the cycle, but I"m still wondering about the adults who put a bunch of white minors in full MAGA gear and bused them from Kentucky to Washington DC for a rally designed to disrupt a Woman's March timed around Martin Luther King's birthday.