The Democrat Utopia

[BigRedBuster]

12 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

I’m trying to figure out what the point of this discussion is. Obviously all people can get a higher education without generating ridiculous amounts of debt. I agree with you and would even say it’s much easier for poor folk to get assistance with that education. Rich people don’t have to worry about it and once again the people getting screwed are the middle/upper middle class. I haven’t read much of this thread. Why does anyone care about the amount of debt some people choose?

 

Now if they want to take steps to make higher education more affordable I’m all for that. But forgiving existing debt is bs. Nobody had a gun to their head. Anybody whining about $100k of student debt should’ve looked into their options and chose differently.

This conversation started because I stated that I didn’t think the government should just forgive everyone’s student loans. 
 

Some disagreed and so I asked, how and why does someone even rack up huge debt going to college?  If someone is concerned about paying it back, then figure out how to go to college without much debt.  It’s possible. 

[BigRedBuster]

12 hours ago, RedDenver said:

So you indeed cannot show what you're claiming. And that's my point - this idea that simply apply personal responsibility somehow magically makes college debt-free is simply not true except in some select cases.

He has shown it. 
 

Also, if you’re coming from a poor family, there are need based scholarships that can pay for large amounts of your costs. 

[nic]

17 hours ago, funhusker said:

I’d love to see what you’re referring to.

Didn’t take long to find this one. recommended $0 dollar bail from the  DA for a 21 year old who did some bad stuff to a minor. Luckily the judge had more common sense. 
 

https://www.glendaleca.gov/Home/Components/News/News/8242/5438

 

[funhusker]

29 minutes ago, nic said:

Didn’t take long to find this one. recommended $0 dollar bail from the  DA for a 21 year old who did some bad stuff to a minor. Luckily the judge had more common sense. 
 

https://www.glendaleca.gov/Home/Components/News/News/8242/5438

 

Okay, I see what you’re referring to.  Definitely problems that will come up with a policy like that.  But my understanding is these criminals will still be prosecuted, right?  Isn’t it meant, in an ideal world, that most people don’t have to sit in jail awaiting trial if they can’t afford bail?  They would still get prosecuted.

 

 

Did the Pennsylvania Rep also promote a “zero bail” policy?  My original question is why should she be okay with letting her attackers out. 
 

 

[JJ Husker]

4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

This conversation started because I stated that I didn’t think the government should just forgive everyone’s student loans. 
 

Some disagreed and so I asked, how and why does someone even rack up huge debt going to college?  If someone is concerned about paying it back, then figure out how to go to college without much debt.  It’s possible. 

Thanks for explaining. And I agree 1000% with all of that.

[teachercd]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

He has shown it. 
 

Also, if you’re coming from a poor family, there are need based scholarships that can pay for large amounts of your costs. 

If you want to make college expensive, you can.  If you want to make it really cheap or affordable, you can.  

 

People have to be trying really hard to not accept that.  

 

Should it be free?  Sure, why not, makes sense to me.  But to think that you can't make it cheap on your own is insane.  

 

This is not the old days of grabbing a Barron's College Guide Book and trying to figure s#!t out on your own.  

[RedDenver]

17 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

On-line tuition costs for the University from my home town.  $227 times 15 = $3405per semester.  $3405 X 2 = $6810.   If someone can’t figure out how to pay $6,810 by working during school or…taking out the maximum amount of $6810 X 4= $27,240 in loans.  Who can’t pay back $27,000 in loans after getting a four year degree?  There ya go.  And that’s just one option of doing things.  

 

https://www.fhsu.edu/sfs/students_parents/tuition/fy22-tuition-and-fees.pdf

 

Degree programs. 
 

https://www.fhsu.edu/online/degrees/

First, you're only looking at tuition and not the total cost. Second, while it's great for residents of Kansas, not everyone grew up there. You're picking a specific example and assuming that can apply everywhere, but it doesn't apply everywhere and doesn't address the issue of how some students can rack up $100k+ of debt.

 

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

He has shown it. 
 

Also, if you’re coming from a poor family, there are need based scholarships that can pay for large amounts of your costs. 

He has not. He has shown some specific examples that don't apply everywhere, so that doesn't really address your original question of how someone can rack up $100k+ in student debt. I'm trying to show you how it's not only possible but very easy to do, and I've given the two biggest public universities in our state as examples.

 

Not everyone can get need based scholarships even for the poor and lower middle class. Most can get federal loans though, which is again taking out loans, which leads back to the question of how students can rack up $100k in student loan debt. And that's assuming the federal loans cover everything, which they frequently don't.

 

You asked how it's possible to rack up $100k in student loans debt, and I think I've shown it with a pertinent example. You can agree with that explanation or not.

 

But I think we agree on the larger issue of college being too expensive, and that we need to do something about that. Where we mostly disagree is on student debt forgiveness. I think it's a no-brainer we should do it as it'll help the less affluent the most and will be a benefit to our economy long-term. And I'm open to conditions for forgiveness like some cap per year or maybe forgive up to what the in-state school cost at that time or something along those lines.

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, teachercd said:

If you want to make college expensive, you can.  If you want to make it really cheap or affordable, you can.  

 

People have to be trying really hard to not accept that.  

 

Should it be free?  Sure, why not, makes sense to me.  But to think that you can't make it cheap on your own is insane.  

 

This is not the old days of grabbing a Barron's College Guide Book and trying to figure s#!t out on your own.  

I don’t think all college should be free. I think at that age, the student should have some skin In the game. 
 

But, it could be cheaper if states would find their state schools. 
 

 

[BigRedBuster]

57 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

First, you're only looking at tuition and not the total cost. Second, while it's great for residents of Kansas, not everyone grew up there. You're picking a specific example and assuming that can apply everywhere, but it doesn't apply everywhere and doesn't address the issue of how some students can rack up $100k+ of debt.

 

He has not. He has shown some specific examples that don't apply everywhere, so that doesn't really address your original question of how someone can rack up $100k+ in student debt. I'm trying to show you how it's not only possible but very easy to do, and I've given the two biggest public universities in our state as examples.

 

Not everyone can get need based scholarships even for the poor and lower middle class. Most can get federal loans though, which is again taking out loans, which leads back to the question of how students can rack up $100k in student loan debt. And that's assuming the federal loans cover everything, which they frequently don't.

 

You asked how it's possible to rack up $100k in student loans debt, and I think I've shown it with a pertinent example. You can agree with that explanation or not.

 

But I think we agree on the larger issue of college being too expensive, and that we need to do something about that. Where we mostly disagree is on student debt forgiveness. I think it's a no-brainer we should do it as it'll help the less affluent the most and will be a benefit to our economy long-term. And I'm open to conditions for forgiveness like some cap per year or maybe forgive up to what the in-state school cost at that time or something along those lines.

Yes he has.  When a school claims it takes 20,000 per year to attend and you get out with anything anywhere close to 80,000 debt, you did something horribly wrong. 
 

so, that student couldn’t get a job while going to school?  Summer jobs?

 

My kids were responsible for all living expenses. They all got through under grad with no debt.  So, if we weren’t helping them, their only debt would maybe be tuition. 
 

Several of us have shown ways to cut the debt way down. 

[Archy1221]

3 hours ago, RedDenver said:

First, you're only looking at tuition and not the total cost. Second, while it's great for residents of Kansas, not everyone grew up there. You're picking a specific example and assuming that can apply everywhere, but it doesn't apply everywhere and doesn't address the issue of how some students can rack up $100k+ of debt.

First, on-line school doesn’t add additional living expenses.  Those expenses are already occurring whether someone goes to school or not.   That’s different than moving on campus and incurring additional living expenses. 
Second, you don’t have to live in Kansas to get that on-line rate so yes it applies everywhere so it does address the issue. 

[teachercd]

7 hours ago, RedDenver said:

First, you're only looking at tuition and not the total cost. Second, while it's great for residents of Kansas, not everyone grew up there. You're picking a specific example and assuming that can apply everywhere, but it doesn't apply everywhere and doesn't address the issue of how some students can rack up $100k+ of debt.

 

He has not. He has shown some specific examples that don't apply everywhere, so that doesn't really address your original question of how someone can rack up $100k+ in student debt. I'm trying to show you how it's not only possible but very easy to do, and I've given the two biggest public universities in our state as examples.

 

Not everyone can get need based scholarships even for the poor and lower middle class. Most can get federal loans though, which is again taking out loans, it leads back to the question of how students can rack up $100k in student loan debt. And that's assuming the federal loans cover everything, which they frequently don't.

 

You asked how it's possible to rack up $100k in student loans debt, and I think I've shown it with a pertinent example. You can agree with that explanation or not.

 

But I think we agree on the larger issue of college being too expensive, and that we need to do something about that. Where we mostly disagree is on student debt forgiveness. I think it's a no-brainer we should do it as it'll help the less affluent the most and will be a benefit to our economy long-term. And I'm open to conditions for forgiveness like some cap per year or maybe forgive up to what the in-state school cost at that time or something along those lines.

I know you won't like this and you will argue it with links that no one clicks on...but if you want to go to college cheap, you can.  In any state...period. 

 

I get people hate being wrong but you said before you admit when you are wrong, so you should be okay with it.

I also get that you are trying to disprove every possible scenario and if I was in your posting shoes I would do that as well...but clearly you don't need to do that.  Online (especially) education has changed EVERYTHING.

 

And if these other countries that some of you love so much would just let...ANYONE take their classes for free...my gosh, just think!   

[admo]

On 12/23/2021 at 6:13 PM, teachercd said:

I did my two (humblebrag) Masters degrees through UNK.  Here is what I did.

 

I opened up a Discover card that was interest free for one (maybe two?) years and I f#&%ing loaded up on classes.  First summer 1 class, fall semester 3 classes, spring semester 4 classes, summer semester 4 classes.

 

Then I would just pay it off as I could each month.

Just 2 masters?? 

 

 

 

pu&&y

[teachercd]

7 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I don’t think all college should be free. I think at that age, the student should have some skin In the game. 
 

But, it could be cheaper if states would find their state schools. 
 

 

I get that, I do...I am 100% fine with it being free (so long as they do not drop and in fact raise profs pay).

 

 

Just now, admo said:

Just 2 masters?? 

 

 

 

pu&&y

Hahaha!

 

So I called about starting my PhD...and they were like...yeah you have to do this and that and this...and I was like "I will call you back"

 

 

That was like 10 years ago! 

[admo]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:32 PM, BigRedBuster said:

If you can afford it, fine. 
 

But if you’re sitting in a situation with very little help, every state has a business college.  

Yeah, or go the junior college route, get associate, then to a university. 

 

Or just get smart growing up.  Both of my brother's kids got academic scholarships - 4 years full ride.  The oldest daughter will graduate this year at Texas State with a nursing degree before she turns 22 in August.  She already been working in hospital killing it $$$.  Now considering TCU for her masters.  The younger daughter is a 19yr old sophomore at Texas. She the smartest among the fam.

 

Or be good in sports.  I had lots of scholarship offers in baseball but signed pro out of HS when got drafted instead.   After 7 years in the minors, having to retire from a bean ball, I eventually went to college.  It took me 6 years to get my associates degree lol.  But I was working and of course, financially set.

[teachercd]

7 minutes ago, admo said:

Yeah, or go the junior college route, get associate, then to a university. 

 

Or just get smart growing up.  Both of my brother's kids got academic scholarships - 4 years full ride.  The oldest daughter will graduate this year at Texas State with a nursing degree before she turns 22 in August.  She already been working in hospital killing it $$$.  Now considering TCU for her masters.  The younger daughter is a 19yr old sophomore at Texas. She the smartest among the fam.

 

Or be good in sports.  I had lots of scholarship offers in baseball but signed pro out of HS when got drafted instead.   After 7 years in the minors, having to retire from a bean ball, I eventually went to college.  It took me 6 years to get my associates degree lol.  But I was working and of course, financially set.

How dare you think it is okay to give free school based on merit!  HOW DARE YOU!

Also, is Minor League Ball both as amazing and as boring as it seems?