The Democrat Utopia

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

This seems like a very 21st Century issue, but some of us of a certain age might remember Dr. Renee Richards going through this same debate about 45 years ago.

 

https://www.si.com/tennis/2019/06/28/renee-richards-gender-identity-politics-transgender-where-are-they-now

 

 

Good article. Also especially good to be reminded of just how slippery this slope really is (which is, pretty much a dry flat surface):

 

She notes, correctly, that after her decision, men did not batter down the women's locker room doors. In all, there have been only a few transgender professional athletes, in sports ranging from golf to mixed martial arts, but none who have competed at Richards's level. (As an Olympic sport, tennis adopts the IOC stan-dard that transgender athletes can play as long as they've been living for a minimum of 12 months as a woman, with no more than five nanomoles per liter of testosterone.)

[funhusker]

54 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Good article. Also especially good to be reminded of just how slippery this slope really is (which is, pretty much a dry flat surface):

 

 

 

But...but....Iowa is going to put all their men on the womens' basketball team!!!  

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Good article. Also especially good to be reminded of just how slippery this slope really is (which is, pretty much a dry flat surface):

 

 

 

I don't care if it's only a few transgender athletes that are causing the issue.  It's still not right.

 

And, to act like people who appose this are thinking all the men are all of a sudden going to compete in women's sports is just being disingenuous in the debate.

 

I guess the other way of looking at it is a rule against it would only affect a very small group of trans athletes, so the rule banning it is OK.

[funhusker]

12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I don't care if it's only a few transgender athletes that are causing the issue.  It's still not right.

 

And, to act like people who appose this are thinking all the men are all of a sudden going to compete in women's sports is just being disingenuous in the debate.

 

I guess the other way of looking at it is a rule against it would only affect a very small group of trans athletes, so the rule banning it is OK.

1) This seemed to be a common thought just a page or two ago.

 

2) That's a fair conversation starter

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 hours ago, funhusker said:

But...but....Iowa is going to put all their men on the womens' basketball team!!!  

Keep telling yourself that’s what everyone is suggesting will happen, if it makes you feel better. 
 

3 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Good article. Also especially good to be reminded of just how slippery this slope really is (which is, pretty much a dry flat surface):

 

 

 

It isn’t a slippery slope at all. It’s literally as simple as this: If you were born a male, you don’t get to compete in female sports. Trans people can pretend they are women all they want, but competing in athletics isn’t a right. People get told they aren’t allowed to compete on teams (or in leagues) all the time, and not being the correct sex can go right in there with reasons like not being talented enough, etc.

[funhusker]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:04 PM, teachercd said:

Agreed...what is to say the UCLA men's VB team won't just say "You know what, this year we are all girls"...

 

I know it sound stupid and it is but what do you do?  Do you say "Nooooo, you are not girls"

@B.B. Hemingway This post had 2 upvotes.  There are about 5 people active in this conversation.  And to pretend that some of the posts in other media don't mirror that thought is a bit naive.

 

 

This is was the basis for my post.

[Lorewarn]

30 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Trans people can pretend they are women all they want, but competing in athletics isn’t a right. 

 

Unrelated to the topic of athletic competition, is this how you sum up trans people? Pretending to be women? 

[Born N Bled Red]

Not to interject. I'm pretty liberal on most things. What people want to do to their own body, how they want to dress, who they want to marry, etc. you do you, have at it. 

 

I do, however, have issue with gender swapped athletic competition. If they want to compete, which, they have the right to do, create a third division for anyone who is trans. 

 

I mean, just a few years ago, wasn't there a triathlete banned from the Olympics because she was born with an extra chromosome? To me, this isn't really any different than that. Create a third division and let them compete that way. 

[JJ Husker]

29 minutes ago, funhusker said:

@B.B. Hemingway This post had 2 upvotes.  There are about 5 people active in this conversation.  And to pretend that some of the posts in other media don't mirror that thought is a bit naive.

 

 

This is was the basis for my post.

It’s fairly valid in a fairness discussion like this to extrapolate to the excess. Does it really matter if it’s only one trans on two different teams or a complete team of 5 trans players on one team? Sure the latter is likely not to occur but I don’t think that changes the fairness issue of men competing in womens sports. If your team (or any team) happens to be the one facing 5 women and one former man in volleyball, I feel pretty comfortable saying that isn’t really fair.

[funhusker]

3 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

It’s fairly valid in a fairness discussion like this to extrapolate to the excess. Does it really matter if it’s only one trans on two different teams or a complete team of 5 trans players on one team? Sure the latter is likely not to occur but I don’t think that changes the fairness issue of men competing in womens sports. If your team (or any team) happens to be the one facing 5 women and one former man in volleyball, I feel pretty comfortable saying that isn’t really fair.

I didn't say it was invalid.  BB's post just seemed to communicate the idea that no one has brought that up.

[JJ Husker]

5 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I didn't say it was invalid.  BB's post just seemed to communicate the idea that no one has brought that up.

Oh, well yeah, the subject has definitely been brought up. I mean Teach’s example of the whole UCLA team being trans is of course not likely but I don’t think it’s completely disingenuous to go there.

 

Here’s a little article about the swimmer.

https://www.sportbible.com/australia/news-trans-swimmer-who-broke-records-says-competing-against-women-is-fair-20211210.amp.html
 

She can think it’s fair for her and claim the IOC got it right but I say BS. As a man this swimmer was nothing special but after transitioning she has dominated and annihilated womens records. I don’t see how that alone isn’t enough evidence of a lack of fairness.

[teachercd]

I think you should be able to pick your gender.  I am all for it.  I don't care if they play sports and dominate.  

 

I think you should also be able to pick your age.  I pick...75 and want to start collecting my SS benefits.  

[Archy1221]

4 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I think you should be able to pick your gender.  I am all for it.  I don't care if they play sports and dominate.  

 

I think you should also be able to pick your age.  I pick...75 and want to start collecting my SS benefits.  

Yes sir! 

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, JJ Husker said:

It’s fairly valid in a fairness discussion like this to extrapolate to the excess. 

 

I think the rare cases of a trans woman dominating her sport probably already is the extrapolation to the excess, at least in terms of usefulness to talk about within the realm of possibility.

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

Unrelated to the topic of athletic competition, is this how you sum up trans people? Pretending to be women? 

Not to be too brash, but if they are men and they’re partaking in activities designed and/or limited to women, and undergoing procedures to make themselves appear more like women, is that not what they’re doing?

 

And I should say, I’m all for them expressing themselves in anyway they desire. It’s when there’s an expectation of societal cooperation, and infringement on other people’s rights and/or societal norms that I start taking some issue with it.

1 hour ago, teachercd said:

I think you should be able to pick your gender.  I am all for it.  I don't care if they play sports and dominate.  

 

I think you should also be able to pick your age.  I pick...75 and want to start collecting my SS benefits.  

It wouldn’t be any less absurd.