The Democrat Utopia

[nic]

Maybe instead of arguing about who questioned the legitimacy of an election and what sinister plans they put in motion to overturn or delegitimize the winner, we can agree that both Biden and Trump were legitimately elected presidents.
 

I have to admit that I was shocked Trump won in 2016. I think I told my wife at the time to “buckle up”. I was also shocked by the number of votes cast in 2020. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, nic said:

Maybe instead of arguing about who questioned the legitimacy of an election and what sinister plans they put in motion to overturn or delegitimize the winner, we can agree that both Biden and Trump were legitimately elected presidents.
 

I have to admit that I was shocked Trump won in 2016. I think I told my wife at the time to “buckle up”. I was also shocked by the number of votes cast in 2020. 

 

I never questioned the validity of any election, myself. Just had some concern about the electoral college system. 

 

I was semi-shocked when Trump won, but had no trouble believing the post-mortem. Hillary Clinton's enthusiasm gap and campaign strategy failed to engage the Democrat's numerical advantage. And a lot of people lied to pollsters, then used the anonymity of the voting booth to endorse Trump. 

 

I honestly didn't take much pleasure that Hillary had 3 million more votes than Donald Trump. Even in losing to Biden, Trump added voters. I remain baffled and saddened. 

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, nic said:

Maybe instead of arguing about who questioned the legitimacy of an election and what sinister plans they put in motion to overturn or delegitimize the winner, we can agree that both Biden and Trump were legitimately elected presidents.
 

I have to admit that I was shocked Trump won in 2016. I think I told my wife at the time to “buckle up”. I was also shocked by the number of votes cast in 2020. 

I don't think any HB regulars have claimed that Trump was not legitimately elected.  However, some have questioned "how" he became legitimately elected.  Same as I don't think any of our conservative posters have said Biden wasn't legitimately elected but they did raise some questions about things they felt were odd.

[NM11046]

I love what Osseff is doing, and it's shocking that it's not already a law - but I think it's sorta odd that this being touted as a rib on Nancy Pelosi specifically.  Yes she made a comment recently, and she is on the list of those likely benefitting, but there are far more examples of GOP members who have made troubling trades or have chosen to not disclose trades per policy - there were 52 offenders just this year - of those, more than 30 were Republicans.  The most offensive of course were Loeffler and Purdue as well as Chris Collins (who went to prison) and Richard Burr in the last year or so.

[nic]

3 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I never questioned the validity of any election, myself. Just had some concern about the electoral college system. 

 

I was semi-shocked when Trump won, but had no trouble believing the post-mortem. Hillary Clinton's enthusiasm gap and campaign strategy failed to engage the Democrat's numerical advantage. And a lot of people lied to pollsters, then used the anonymity of the voting booth to endorse Trump. 

 

I honestly didn't take much pleasure that Hillary had 3 million more votes than Donald Trump. Even in losing to Biden, Trump added voters. I remain baffled and saddened. 

Well said and fair points. Trump got the second most votes ever next to Biden. I guess that is what I meant by “surprised by the vote totals”. I think Biden got a lot of anti-trump votes. At least from people in my circle that were willing to open up about it.  If there is a bright side it’s that more people were willing to come out and vote.

[nic]

3 hours ago, funhusker said:

I don't think any HB regulars have claimed that Trump was not legitimately elected.  However, some have questioned "how" he became legitimately elected.  Same as I don't think any of our conservative posters have said Biden wasn't legitimately elected but they did raise some questions about things they felt were odd.

Good to hear. Unfortunately, I have plenty of liberal friends tell me Trump was not legit (Russians did it) and conservative friends tell me 2020 was rigged. I just told them both to prove it. Some were even family…which was awkward. 

[Lorewarn]

5 hours ago, nic said:

Good to hear. Unfortunately, I have plenty of liberal friends tell me Trump was not legit (Russians did it) and conservative friends tell me 2020 was rigged. I just told them both to prove it. Some were even family…which was awkward. 

 

 

You don't have to agree or even think that it's illegitimate, but Russian collusion and influence on the 2016 election is proven. None of the claims of 2020 rigged have been proven, or even have anything close to a preponderance of evidence.

[nic]

7 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

You don't have to agree or even think that it's illegitimate, but Russian collusion and influence on the 2016 election is proven. None of the claims of 2020 rigged have been proven, or even have anything close to a preponderance of evidence.

Mueller noted attempted interference with machines that failed, there was group that would attempt to so discord with competing protests or rallies and of course social media misinformation. proof of collusion between Trump and the Russians was sketchy at best. 

[teachercd]

So with Texas getting a bunch of new people, especially from California, I would have to imagine that eventually Texas will start voting D, right?

[Archy1221]

17 hours ago, funhusker said:

I don't think any HB regulars have claimed that Trump was not legitimately elected.  However, some have questioned "how" he became legitimately elected.  Same as I don't think any of our conservative posters have said Biden wasn't legitimately elected but they did raise some questions about things they felt were odd.

From a few pages back

 

And to answer you - yeah, I do think that if it's proven by multiple agencies that another country did impact our election outcome, and the popular vote was significantly different than the electoral college, I'd probably agree he was not legitimately elected BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE.

[knapplc]

13 hours ago, nic said:

I think Biden got a lot of anti-trump votes. At least from people in my circle that were willing to open up about it.

 

That's me. I didn't vote for Biden. I voted against the other guy. 

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, nic said:

Mueller noted attempted interference with machines that failed, there was group that would attempt to so discord with competing protests or rallies and of course social media misinformation. proof of collusion between Trump and the Russians was sketchy at best. 

 

Proof of trump's ties to Russia are pretty easy to find.

 

Putin openly admitted his preference for trump over Hillary. 

 

American intelligence found proof of Putin's efforts on behalf of trump.

 

Russia doesn't have to physically change a vote in a machine to affect the election. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

It's hard to prove cause and effect in a presidential election.

 

But here's one that's hard to get past: Hillary Clinton had solidified her lead after the last Presidential debate, and 11 days before the election held a significant 8% - 10% advantage in virtually every poll. 10 days before the election, Comey announced that the FBI was investigating Hillary Clinton's emails, and her lead evaporated virtually overnight. 

 

You could try to piece together a conspiracy involving Comey, but you would still need millions of people who quickly changed their minds about Hillary, based on an unproven ethics charge that wouldn't rise to the level of a dozen blatant misdeeds by Donald Trump. No amount of Russian collusion could hold a candle to that 10 point swing. 

 

Whatever you might think about Russian collusion during the election, we were still left with the new American President standing next to KGB mastermind Vladimir Putin and telling the world he believes Putin over the unanimous conclusion of all 17 United States intelligence agencies. 

 

And Trump's true believers simply doubled down.

 

I can't believe the times we live in. 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

31 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It's hard to prove cause and effect in a presidential election.

 

But here's one that's hard to get past: Hillary Clinton had solidified her lead after the last Presidential debate, and 11 days before the election held a significant 8% - 10% advantage in virtually every poll. 10 days before the election, Comey announced that the FBI was investigating Hillary Clinton's emails, and her lead evaporated virtually overnight. 

 

You could try to piece together a conspiracy involving Comey, but you would still need millions of people who quickly changed their minds about Hillary, based on an unproven ethics charge that wouldn't rise to the level of a dozen blatant misdeeds by Donald Trump. No amount of Russian collusion could hold a candle to that 10 point swing. 

 

Whatever you might think about Russian collusion during the election, we were still left with the new American President standing next to KGB mastermind Vladimir Putin and telling the world he believes Putin over the unanimous conclusion of all 17 United States intelligence agencies. 

 

And Trump's true believers simply doubled down.

 

I can't believe the times we live in. 

 

 

Wait...I thought the government was working to destroy Trump's campaign. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

24 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Wait...I thought the government was working to destroy Trump's campaign. 

 

One significant shift that came out of this: Trumpists and rightwing media now view the FBI and Intelligence in general as their political adversary. 

 

Blue Lives Matter but the distinction stops when law enforcement investigates political corruption.  

 

Comey's background and choices remain a puzzle.