Russia

[TGHusker]

On 8/11/2018 at 10:21 AM, RedDenver said:

I think the idea that Reagan caused the Soviet collapse is overblown. The Soviets had been in decline since the early 70's, and it was their own people overthrowing the government that finally put the nail in the coffin. Reagan's arms race may have put more pressure on them, but that system was unstable and would have collapsed anyway.

  .  The thing that Reagan did was to recognize what was going on in the Soviet system and instead honoring the concept  of 'detente' as other  presidents had before him, he pushed the Soviets into the 'ash heap of history' with his overall military and economic strategy.  For small example:  He worked wt the Saudi's for example to bring the price of oil down- something that greatly hurt the Soviet economy  which needed high oil prices.   Read Reagan's autobiography which gives a lot of detail on the subject as well as a  numerous insider  books that have come out on the subject.  Gorbachev, also was a new style leader and recognized the 'tea leaves' - he became the one leader that Reagan could work with - as Reagan had complained that the Soviet leaders (3) keep dying off on him before he could get anywhere with them. 

 

Here is a summary article

http://www.historyinanhour.com/2011/02/06/ronald-reagan-cold-war/

 

Partial Quote:
 

Quote

 

The ash-heap of history

Speaking to the UK Parliament in June 1982, the first US president to do so, Reagan spoke of the “forward march of freedom and democracy [which] will leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash-heap of history.” He considered negotiations with the Russians a sign of feebleness, and criticized the lack of free elections in Eastern Europe: “Regimes planted by bayonets do not take root.”

In 1983 Reagan predicted “communism is another sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages even now are being written”.

Reagan initiated a defensive anti-missile system in space, the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI or, as nicknamed, ‘Star Wars’), aimed at neutralizing incoming Soviet missiles. The technology needed for such an ambitious project had not yet been developed.

Although incredibly expensive and ultimately futile, Reagan’s SDI program and his aggressiveness shocked the Soviet Union who were unable, economically, to match the US in Reagan’s rapid escalation of the arms race. The cost of being a superpower was crippling for the Soviet Union – commitment to conventional and nuclear arms, the funding of communist regimes elsewhere in the world, and the costly and unpopular war in Afghanistan were all taking its toll on the economy and the everyday lives of the Soviet citizen.

The ‘Reagan Doctrine’

Ronald Reagan won a second term as president, winning the November 1984 presidential election with 525 of 538 electoral votes, the largest number ever won by a US presidential candidate, and carrying 49 of the 50 US states, only the second US president to do so. (Richard Nixon being the first in 1972).

Unlike his predecessors, containment of communism wasn’t enough for Reagan – he wanted to destroy it wherever possible. The ‘Reagan Doctrine’ provided support, financially and militarily, for anti-communist fighters throughout Africa, Asia and particularly in Latin America, in an attempt to “roll back” communism.

With the Soviet Union embroiled in Afghanistan since 1979, its ‘Soviet Vietnam’, Reagan provided the Mujahedeen, fighting the Soviets, cash, arms and training.

 

 

 

I think this is an interesting comment from a book, by  Ambassador Jack F. Matlock, former Special Assistant to the President for the Soviet Union during the Reagan Administration and the last US ambassador to the Soviet Union, on the relationship between Reagan and Gorbachev. 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/reagan-and-gorbachev-how-the-cold-war-ended

Quote

The book describes the process as it occurred, sometimes at a very fast pace, and, in Matlock's opinion, driven by essentially two people: Reagan and Gorbachev. Was it not for them, the Cold War would not have ended when it did, nor as peacefully as it did. Even if the Soviet economy was suffering, had Gorbachev not weaken the Communist grip on power, the system would have survived, and might even be present today, Matlock concluded. It was because of their respective political skill, and their ability to get their respective administrations behind the decisions they made together, that allowed for things to evolve the way they did. The book is a narrative of how the events evolved and how decisions were made, primarily from the US side, but includes some of the emerging evidence from the Soviet archives. It also relied heavily on the available documentary record.
The book adds new insights on Reagan's understanding of the Cold War and on his relations with Gorbachev, on his methods, and on what Reagan wanted to accomplish from some of his meetings with Gorbachev. Prior to the meeting in Geneva, Matlock told the audience, Reagan dictated to his secretary his goals. At the end, he added that "whatever we accomplish, we must not call it victory, since [the Soviets] must understand they are doing this in their own interest," Matlock paraphrased the president. Other new evidence deals with the meeting in Reykjavik, which at the time was considered a failure, only to be better understood later. Gorbachev, for example, considered the meeting in Reykjavik the turning point in the relations with the US and his relations with Reagan. Followed by Reagan's visit to Moscow, relations between the too leaders really took off.

 

[RedDenver]

@TGHusker, I'm not saying Reagan didn't have a part, just that his part is overblown.

 

Let's Please Stop Crediting Ronald Reagan for the Fall of the Berlin Wall

Peak Oil And The Fall Of The Soviet Union: Lessons On The 20th Anniversary Of The Collapse

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Synopsis: The causes of the fall of the Soviet Union are thought to be inefficiency and the Soviet response to the Reagan Administration's military buildup of the early 1980s. However, a more plausible explanation is the decline in Soviet oil production caused by peak oil. This gives the world an example of a modern economy confronted by peak oil and what lessons we can learn from it.

Reagan and Gorbachev: Shutting the Cold War Down

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Reagan himself went even farther. Asked at a press conference in Moscow in 1988, his last year in office, about the role he played in the great drama of the late 20th century, he described himself essentially as a supporting actor. “Mr. Gorbachev,” he said, “deserves most of the credit, as the leader of this country.”

Everything You Think You Know About the Collapse of the Soviet Union Is Wrong

Quote

 

Nor was America the catalyzing force. The “Reagan Doctrine” of resisting and, if possible, reversing the Soviet Union’s advances in the Third World did put considerable pressure on the perimeter of the empire, in places like Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, and Ethiopia. Yet Soviet difficulties there, too, were far from fatal.

 

As a precursor to a potentially very costly competition, Reagan’s proposed Strategic Defense Initiative indeed was crucial — but it was far from heralding a military defeat, given that the Kremlin knew very well that effective deployment of space-based defenses was decades away.

 

 

[ZRod]

I'm surprised no one has posted this yet. And I would guess this administration will do nothing in response...

 

Microsoft uncovers more Russian hacking ahead of midterms

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Translation:

 

"Don't worry Russia, we can't do anything to you anyway....so go ahead and help Republicans win"

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.

[TGHusker]

^^^^ Repub leaders - So Bad and So Sad.   Any wonder how tyrants take control of a country - wonder no more. 

[Danny Bateman]

33 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

^^^^ Repub leaders - So Bad and So Sad.   Any wonder how tyrants take control of a country - wonder no more. 

 

McConnell has an agenda that is clear as day. 

 

He's going to do what's best for the Republican Party over what's best for the country 100 times out of 100.

[Moiraine]

Wonder how hard it would be for hackers to delete 10% of Democrats from the voter rolls in areas with close races. Maybe delete 5% of Republicans to cover their asses.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[NM11046]

Well that certainly explains how Ohr's name started appearing in Trumps twitter in the last week.  And his mania.

 

I'm watching the news like crazy hoping today is an indictment Friday .... would love Jr to go into the holiday with his name in the news.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[BigRedBuster]

And yet our President refuses to say anything negative about them and attacks anyone who does. 

[BigRedBuster]

WTF?????

 

 

[commando]

why did russia meddle?  and the GOP is in bed with this?

 

 

[commando]

Speaking about the position of the U.S. on the global stage, Putin celebrated the waning influence of what he described as America’s “monopoly” on power, saying it would give Russia the ability to exert more influence in the world.

“Empires often think they can make some little mistakes. Because they’re so powerful,” Putin said, according to the Financial Times. ”But when the number of these mistakes keeps growing, it reaches a level they cannot sustain.”

He admonished the U.S. for having a “sense of impunity,” saying, “This is the result of the monopoly from a unipolar world.”

“Luckily this monopoly is disappearing,” he added. “It’s almost done.”

And Russia’s time has come, he said, claiming that America’s downfall meant that Russia had an opportunity to establish itself as a major player on the global stage.

 

 

https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-putin-say-influence-world-waning/

 

 

 

[commando]

russia making some serious moves on ukraine.   blockaded many ukrainian ports this morning and now they have had some sort of dust up in the sea.   

 

 

unconfirmed reports of naval fire...and a definite case of a russian ship ramming a ukranian ship.