Defense Struggles

[Husker in WI]

13 minutes ago, LumberJackSker said:

Do you think chin is a good coach or is it that Nebraska can't do better than him? Alex grinch was a db coach before he was hired at Washington State and there defense was terrible and he turned it into one of tye best in the country. I never expected this defense to be great in only two years but just because 100% of the roster doesn't fit exactly what you want to do and you have a offense that makes it so the defense is on the field a lot doesnt automatically mean there can't be improvements.

 

The defense that gave up 58 to Arizona, 41 to Washington, and 42 to Michigan State his last year there? They got really good yardage wise, but still gave up points. Arizona and Washington did have good offensives that year, but those point totals aren't consistent with "one of the best in the country."

 

For me it's not so much that we can't do better, as we really don't know how good/bad Chins is. Frost probably has a better idea, although some people argue he's blinded. Who would you have gone after instead?

 

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

In other words, good coaches typically prove themselves at schools that need a lot of help, take the talent they're given, and move up in the world when football watchers recognize their ability to get more out of even marginal talent. That's what the job is all about.

 

Good head coaches, sure. I'm not convinced on coordinators.

EDIT: I realized you're replying to a post mentioning head coaches, my bad. I do stand by my point though - feels like coordinators tend to take over for guys who leave to be a head coach, not as many taking bad jobs first.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Just now, Husker in WI said:

 

The defense that gave up 58 to Arizona, 41 to Washington, and 42 to Michigan State his last year there? They got really good yardage wise, but still gave up points. Arizona and Washington did have good offensives that year, but those point totals aren't consistent with "one of the best in the country."

 

For me it's not so much that we can't do better, as we really don't know how good/bad Chins is. Frost probably has a better idea, although some people argue he's blinded. Who would you have gone after instead?

 

 

Good head coaches, sure. I'm not convinced on coordinators.

 

I was offered Head Coaches as examples for some reason, but while hotshot coordinators can sometimes jump directly to successful P5 HC jobs or slip over to OC/DC jobs at the better schools, they generally follow friends in the coaching fraternity and/or take the available best paying job that leads to even better teams and HC positions. There's not always a luxury of choice. 

 

To put it another way, there aren't a lot of coaching vacancies at schools where the talent is flowing and everything is going great. And the  expensive and proven guy who'd demand a high salary used to be a more affordable and less-proven guy five years ago. That's the guy you target. 

[Husker in WI]

3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I was offered Head Coaches as examples for some reason, but while hotshot coordinators can sometimes jump directly to successful P5 HC jobs or slip over to OC/DC jobs at the better schools, they generally follow friends in the coaching fraternity and/or take the available best paying job that leads to even better teams and HC positions. There's not always a luxury of choice. 

 

To put it another way, there aren't a lot of coaching vacancies at schools where the talent is flowing and everything is going great. And the  expensive and proven guy who'd demand a high salary used to be a more affordable and less-proven guy five years ago. That's the guy you target. 

 

So whose to say we don't have the guy who is going to be expensive and proven 5 years from now? Aside from the results so far, of course.

 

But seriously, I think Frost did exactly that when he hired Chinander, went for the guy who isn't proven yet but he believes will be. Early results are not great, but I'm willing to give it a little more time.

[LumberJackSker]

24 minutes ago, Husker in WI said:

 

The defense that gave up 58 to Arizona, 41 to Washington, and 42 to Michigan State his last year there? They got really good yardage wise, but still gave up points. Arizona and Washington did have good offensives that year, but those point totals aren't consistent with "one of the best in the country."

 

For me it's not so much that we can't do better, as we really don't know how good/bad Chins is. Frost probably has a better idea, although some people argue he's blinded. Who would you have gone after instead?

 

 

 

His defenses put up much better numbers than before he got there and forced turnovers to get the ball back for the offense. He then turned that into jobs at Ohio State and OU so some people tbink he's one of the best.

 

I didn't have a problem bring the whole staff over from ucf, but i think two years is enough time to see whether or not a coach has enough potential to get Nebraska where we all want it to be.

 

I get he doesn't have his guys at every position but if he'll only capable of coaching an average defense once he has a roster that is 100% his recruits he's probably not a very good coach.

[Mavric]

4 hours ago, SFW said:

There was a reason the Gators told Frost not to bring Chinander along.

 

I think this is a convenient re-telling of what actually happened.  I don't recall it ever being one specific coach that he couldn't bring.  And if there was a report of that, it would be third-hand at best.

 

The report is one sticking point was they wanted some control over who he brought as assistants.  Whether that was someone they wanted him to bring or someone they didn't want him to bring is speculation.

[4skers89]

9 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

Quick what year is it?  If I didn't wake up from a 15 year sleep, why should I be content with the 2nd best defense in the past 5 years?  Better than last year???  There was only 2 possibilities- stay the same or get better.  

[Mavric]

 

[Mavric]

5 minutes ago, 4skers89 said:

Quick what year is it?  If I didn't wake up from a 15 year sleep, why should I be content with the 2nd best defense in the past 5 years?  Better than last year???  There was only 2 possibilities- stay the same or get better.  

 

No, those aren't the only two possibilities.  We could have gotten quite a bit worse, as we were in 2017.

[4skers89]

4 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

No, those aren't the only two possibilities.  We could have gotten quite a bit worse, as we were in 2017.

My bad.  All of these bad seasons are starting to blur together.  I just ran out of fingers and toes counting the wins since 2014.  

[Caliborn72]

Frost keeps his hands off the defense + Moos has offered his full support which means I think we could definitely hire a great DC in a sense. The thing is, Frost and Chin are on the same page with regards to letting the offense score quickly and put up big numbers while the defense wreaks havoc and forces opposing offenses to make mistakes, even if it means giving up some yards and some points in the process. Most great DCs would probably prefer the offense to manage the game clock more than that lol.

 

I fully understand not wanting to make sweeping changes to the staff yet. But if we end up 4-8, with 2 squeamishly close wins over Illinois and NW, then I personally think we need to make at least one position coaching upgrade this offseason. OLB seems like a fine candidate for that. A prominent discussion on the board is how it usually takes until year 2 to see major results, which means that waiting until year 3 to be absolutely certain before we make an upgrade pushes us back until year 5 before we can expect major OLB results. Start the process this offseason and see if we can’t make the rest of the defense look better with a different OLB coach.

[TheSker]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

No. Urban Meyer takes the job at Utah. Nick Saban takes the job at Toledo and Michigan State. James Franklin takes the job at Vanderbilt. Jim Harbaugh takes the University of San Diego job, then take over a famously talent-starved Stanford team. Paul Chyrst manages to be a .500 coach at Pittsburgh before Wisconsin offers him the HC job. PJ Fleck takes the Western Michigan job, then moves to Minnesota to oversee talent considered on par or less than Nebraskas. Bill Snyder takes the job at one of the least successful schools in NCAA history. Les Miles accepts the challenge at Kansas. 

 

In other words, good coaches typically prove themselves at schools that need a lot of help, take the talent they're given, and move up in the world when football watchers recognize their ability to get more out of even marginal talent. That's what the job is all about. 

 

 

The conversation was not about how coaches prove themselves.

[Guy Chamberlin]

23 minutes ago, TheSker said:

The conversation was not about how coaches prove themselves.

 

The conversation was about why a good coach would go to a school that didn't already have a talent pipeline.

 

The answer is that good coaches prove themselves by how they work with the talent they're given. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

You're welcome. 

[TheSker]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

The conversation was about why a good coach would go to a school that didn't already have a talent pipeline.

 

The answer is that good coaches prove themselves by how they work with the talent they're given. 

Your conversation with yourself might have been.

 

But the real question is why doesn't Frost bring a Venables to Nebraska?

 

The actual answer is a Venables will say no way!

[Danimal]

8 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

I think this is a convenient re-telling of what actually happened.  I don't recall it ever being one specific coach that he couldn't bring.  And if there was a report of that, it would be third-hand at best.

 

The report is one sticking point was they wanted some control over who he brought as assistants.  Whether that was someone they wanted him to bring or someone they didn't want him to bring is speculation.

 

Coach Beckton said Florida didn't want to bring the whole staff over,.I remember cringing that he would make such a thing public since it makes us look look more desperate. No he didn't go into detail as to who Florida didn't want but I would be shocked if Chin wasn't one of the guys Florida thought they could upgrade on.  After perusing Florida's defensive staff I can't say their stance was wrong. They have proven P5 coaches, we are hoping the coaches of an OK G5 defense. develop a lot.