The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[Jason Sitoke]

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

BTW…these variants of concern are not originating from the US.  

There have been variants of interest that originated here.  So you believe that the virus is not mutating in the US? This might be the best example of American exceptionalism I've heard to date.

[Hedley Lamarr]

5 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

No, I don't know that.  I am struggling to understand what a rational person would be waiting for when the effectiveness and safety of the vaccination is bearing out before our eyes.

 

Can those people you speak of verbalize their specific concerns at this point, and consequently how a full FDA approval would alleviate those specific concerns?

You hear those who are very hesitant get bombarded via a multitude of platforms around the "dangers" of the vaccine and the VAERS reporting etc. A full FDA approval will alleviate a lot of those concerns. Again the vast majority of the country that hasnt received the covid vaccine are up to date on their other shots. It isnt like over 50% of the US doesnt get their other shots or arent vaccinated for the plethora of other things. Wanting the covid vaccine to meet the same stringent criteria to gain full FDA approval will go a long ways in reducing hesitancy. even if it results in only a third of those who havent been vaccinated getting the jab that still gets us much closer. I would imagine you could easily see us get into the 80% of vaccinated individuals in the US at that point. 

 

Not only that but I know Doctors who are waiting for full FDA approval and have stated as much that I know personally. They want to ensure the vaccine goes through the same rigorous process as other things they inject into their patients. Makes total sense to me. 

[Jason Sitoke]

16 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Let me then throw it back to you and say what exactly is the FDA waiting for?  They make the rules and can change them in extraordinary circumstances.   No law that I am aware of is keeping them from approving the vaccines.  

Those aren’t the people we are talking about which we all very well know.  

Ok, so the FDA can do what they want.  They can arbitrarily choose to 'act' and fully approve the vaccine.  And so an agency that lives by its own rules and does what it wants pulls out a different rubber stamp, and that is what hesitant people are waiting for?

 

If you're aware of development processes, you understand that they do serve a purpose.  They do offer more rigor, but often times at the expense of money and more importantly, time.  Is there a full proof way to know what this vaccine does to you in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years?  Not without more data.  But with a pandemic raging, we took the leap and the FDA used a lean process to address an emergency.  Since then, nearly 200 million Americans have taken part in what amounts to a phase 4 human trial, with irrefutable results in both safety and effectiveness.  If you aren't convinced yet, I'm skeptical you ever will be.

[RedDenver]

20 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

BTW…these variants of concern are not originating from the US.  

yet

[Jason Sitoke]

3 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

You hear those who are very hesitant get bombarded via a multitude of platforms around the "dangers" of the vaccine and the VAERS reporting etc. A full FDA approval will alleviate a lot of those concerns. Again the vast majority of the country that hasnt received the covid vaccine are up to date on their other shots. It isnt like over 50% of the US doesnt get their other shots or arent vaccinated for the plethora of other things. Wanting the covid vaccine to meet the same stringent criteria to gain full FDA approval will go a long ways in reducing hesitancy. even if it results in only a third of those who havent been vaccinated getting the jab that still gets us much closer. I would imagine you could easily see us get into the 80% of vaccinated individuals in the US at that point. 

 

Not only that but I know Doctors who are waiting for full FDA approval and have stated as much that I know personally. They want to ensure the vaccine goes through the same rigorous process as other things they inject into their patients. Makes total sense to me. 

To your first point, I don't believe MMR shots ever came up in a political conversation.  To your next point, EUA has rigor built in. It is less rigor, and for good reason.  There are unknowable things right now with the vaccine, that is true.  But it is also unknowable how a previous COVID infection might affect you in 5 years, and yet...people seem to be more than happy to roll the dice.

[Enhance]

22 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Let me then throw it back to you and say what exactly is the FDA waiting for?  They make the rules and can change them in extraordinary circumstances.   No law that I am aware of is keeping them from approving the vaccines.  

I don't know the answer, but I imagine it's tied up in a lot of red tape and bureaucracy. The FDA did exactly what it needed to do to provide emergency approval. Since then, they're on record as stating all available data points and research prove that the benefits of receiving the vaccines outweigh any potential risks. They've done just about everything they can outside of slapping an official seal on it. So, my question remains, what exactly are the obstinate people waiting for? To this point, I've seen nothing to disprove the notion that they're not just naysayers who will jump to the next available crutch as soon as it presents itself.

 

Those aren’t the people we are talking about which we all very well know.

Do we know that for certain? Because a lot of those people exist. And if we're not talking about them, then what rational excuse do people have outside of a medical condition? To this point, researchers and doctors have said the volume of people potentially at risk of negative side effects from the COVID vaccine are minuscule and do not come anywhere close to justifying the volume of people who remain unvaccinated.

 

We'll see what happens when the FDA finally provides full approval, but it is absolutely going to happen sooner or later. I'm incredibly skeptical about how much influence it will actually have.

[Archy1221]

18 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Is this the part where I ask you to tell me where I said that, and then you point at something else?

No, this is the part where I ask you where I ever brought you into that conversation.  However if you are one, then I can add you to list and bump the number up by one.  

[Enhance]

7 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

If you're aware of development processes, you understand that they do serve a purpose.  They do offer more rigor, but often times at the expense of money and more importantly, time.  Is there a full proof way to know what this vaccine does to you in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years?  Not without more data.  But with a pandemic raging, we took the leap and the FDA used a lean process to address an emergency.  Since then, nearly 200 million Americans have taken part in what amounts to a phase 4 human trial, with irrefutable results in both safety and effectiveness.  If you aren't convinced yet, I'm skeptical you ever will be.

[Scarlet]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

 

 

Yes, sounds like something I would have said.  A+ on your research project!  
 

You never answered the question. 

 

What does it matter to you if cases don't really mean much since the country is +60% vaccinated, as you put it?  You insinuated that hospitalizations wouldn't follow.  And deaths wouldn't follow.  If that's the case then why do care if the FDA gives full approval or not?  Rising cases don't really mean much, right?  

 

 

[Scarlet]

30 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

BTW…these variants of concern are not originating from the US.  

[Archy1221]

18 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

There have been variants of interest that originated here.  So you believe that the virus is not mutating in the US? This might be the best example of American exceptionalism I've heard to date.

Variants of interest sure, variants of concern, not yet unless you know something the rest of the world doesn’t know.  
 

did I ever say it wasn’t mutating here?  Or did I say variants of concern didn’t originate here?  
 

 

[Archy1221]

12 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

yet

It’s possible.  

[Jason Sitoke]

Just now, Archy1221 said:

Variants of interest sure, variants of concern, not yet unless you know something the rest of the world doesn’t know.  
 

did I ever say it wasn’t mutating here?  Or did I say variants of concern didn’t originate here?  
 

 

Well, I made the mistake of assuming you had some kind of greater point.  I guess actually it seems like you were saying.....

...what were you saying?

[Archy1221]

14 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

that is what hesitant people are waiting for?

Yes, some are

 

15 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

If you're aware of development processes, you understand that they do serve a purpose. 

Millions upon millions of Americans are not fully aware of the development process for drugs, but most  understand what it means to them when the FDA approves a drug.  
 

I mean some people waited for free beer or free lottery tickets or free giveaways to get vaccinated.  Why is it such a thing for people to wait for FDA approval?  

[FrantzHardySwag]

As far as hospitals requiring vaccinations, that really doesn't surprise me. There are many things you can do at a regular place of business that would get you fired at a hospital for putting patients in harms way. Lots of $$$$ on the line for infection control at hospitals. They'll do what they can to hang on to that money.