The 2024 Presidential Election- The LONG General Election

[knapplc]

 

 

 

[nic]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:37 AM, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

As somebody pointed out earlier, the global pandemic had massive effects on the global economy, and the U.S. rode it out and emerged considerably better than almost every country in the world, including China. Something similar might have happened had Trump remained in office, and I guarantee you he would be lauding these same economic numbers as evidence of America's resilience, as would the Republican messaging. The fact that opponents want to measure the success of Presidents by fluctuating gas prices suggests we aren't good at this kind of analysis. At the end of the day, the economy is doing better than many expected and predicted. There's actually a lot America should be celebrating right now.

 

Biden deserves points for infrastructure, lowering the price of insulin, and shoring up U.S. silicon chip manufacturing against an Asian monopoly. There's a lot of stuff that that flies under the radar but does meaningful things. The Afghan withdrawl was a s#!tshow, but it was mandated by Donald Trump's timetable and the Bush administration's actions in the first place. The intelligence community was keenly aware Kabul was destined to fall, but wildly underestimated the speed of the surrender. Horrible optics but not exactly a Joe Biden policy decision. 

 

If you're conservative, I guess you'd have to dislike Biden's Supreme Court appointment, but given the political activism of a very right wing majority it's not very sporting to hold Brown's appointment against Biden, especially when the SC is making decision that run counter to majority public opinion. Or to put it another way, what should I like about Clarence Thomas?

 

Every President has to walk the tightrope with China; our global superpower rival, but also our most valuable trade partner.  I've heard Biden criticized as weak on China, not to mention the conspiracy theorists who claim China was behind his fraudulent election, but the record shows Biden being both as tough and accommodating as his predecessors. Do you have any specifics about Biden's China foreign policy that aren't working for you? 

 

And what is Biden focusing on that you don't care about? If it's culture issue stuff, a lot of that has been ginned up by the opposition, ironically spending far too much of their own focus and energy on something that doesn't really affect them, but makes for great divisive theater.  

 

And of course the biggest thing to like about Biden is that he's not Donald Trump. Sounds silly, but that's just where we are. 

The chip manufacturing is where I work. If Taiwan goes down so does a large percentage of the silicon fabs. The investment INTEL and Global Fouderies are putting in place in the US is supposed to mitigate the global problems we will see WHEN China moves on Taiwan. It's good this administration continued the funding, but it's been planned for awhile. Just like the Afghanistan withdrawal. This might be executed better. To answer your question, less of a fine line on China and acknowledging they are not who many think they are wound be nice. Too many in the country bow to China. The steal too mcuh IP. Some are waking up. We should bring manufacturing back. They buy our dept. It's not a good situation. We need to cut them off. I hope we have a plan. 

 

The pandemic handling by both administration's was a disaster. Especially for the kids. We knew who was at risk within 2 month. We needed to adjust accordingly without tanking our economy and kids education. In my opinion both administration's failed. Its probably due to the Ram Emanuel advice. Never waste a good crisis, to get the crap that doesn't matter pushed through. In my opinion (which is worth what you paid for it) neither Trump  nor Biden should have passed those last too spending bills. Waste of money and helped push us to where we are.

[nic]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:45 AM, Scarlet said:

@nic will be so proud of himself when finds out he handed off his children's future to an authoritarian regime where only the oligarchs thrive.  Sure that statement will be brushed aside as hyperbole but only by those who have repeatedly tried to whitewash all we have witnessed in the attempt to topple our democracy.  It's like the attention span is so frazzled that January 6th, just as one example, has been forgotten.

Not sure what you even talking about. Trump? You need to get over him. Although it's looking more and more likely he will be back. My vote won't be one of them. But I won't vote for Biden either. Give me another option. RFK Jr is proving to be a bit bat $h!t crazy BTW.

[nic]

On 7/15/2023 at 4:12 PM, Lorewarn said:

 

 

There's a good number of things you should like. While inflation is an issue that arose globally outside of any president's control, the US is the least inflated country in the world. Record job numbers. Record unemployment numbers. Massive infrastructure improvements. Massive manufacturing investments. Biggest investment in climate change in history. Got us out of the longest war in the history of our country even though it was ugly. Cut child poverty in half. Prescription drug price caps and reductions esp for seniors. Not just supporting Ukraine but successfully rallying the rest of the world into a united front in supporting Ukraine and strengthening our relationships with NATO and our allies. PACT Act. CHIPS act. Just a few things you should like.

Record unemployment? Lots of folks getting let go. I guess I need to check the overall number, but wasn't Trump down in the 4% to 5% range? According to the Dr. Afghanistan was a forced exit for Biden, executed very poorly. The parents of the wife of the family we helped settle here are in Taliban custody so we hear the reality. Too much spending on things that do are not all that important at the end of the Trump admin and beginning of the Biden helped get us here. Not sure investments in getting rid of gas stoves matters to me. The comedian in Ukraine actually pulled the world together behind them. I think even this administration was surprised.

 

Edit: Holy cow, I didn't realize unemployment got down to 3.5% in Jan of 2020, spiked to almost 15 when the pandemic hit, dropped back to 6.7 in Nov 2020, and is back down to 3.6% in May of 2023. Maybe all the tech sector folks getting let go have found jobs or the numbers haven't hit yet. I know we give 2 months of paid leave. 

[teachercd]

Oh s#!t...you brought up Covid???

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, nic said:

Record unemployment? Lots of folks getting let go. I guess I need to check the overall number, but wasn't Trump down in the 4% to 5% range? According to the Dr. Afghanistan was a forced exit for Biden, executed very poorly. The parents of the wife of the family we helped settle here are in Taliban custody so we hear the reality. Too much spending on things that do are not all that important at the end of the Trump admin and beginning of the Biden helped get us here. Not sure investments in getting rid of gas stoves matters to me. The comedian in Ukraine actually pulled the world together behind them. I think even this administration was surprised.

 

 

Your response is just a mishmash of anecdotes and vague musings about mostly nothing.

[Scarlet]

7 hours ago, nic said:

Not sure what you even talking about. Trump? You need to get over him. Although it's looking more and more likely he will be back. My vote won't be one of them. But I won't vote for Biden either. Give me another option. RFK Jr is proving to be a bit bat $h!t crazy BTW.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  

[Archy1221]

10 hours ago, nic said:

In my opinion (which is worth what you paid for it) neither Trump  nor Biden should have passed those last too spending bills. Waste of money and helped push us to where we are

I agree with this

[TGHusker]

So a possible Manchin/Huntsman  No Labels ticket?    I still wonder which party it will hurt the most.  Regardless, if it is a Trump/Biden rematch, then both parties need to

be hit by voter revolts.  

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4098396-manchin-stokes-speculation-with-no-labels-event/

 

Quote

 

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is causing a stir among Democrats as his extended flirtation with a third-party presidential run is set to resurface when he headlines an event for No Labels — despite concerns that a possible run would boost former President Trump.

Manchin will headline an event for the middle-of-the-road group — which has been pushing a potential “unity ticket” as a third option in the presidential race — in New Hampshire on Monday. 

 

The possibility of third-party candidates drawing votes has Democrats worried, but they are especially concerned Manchin, who is up for reelection in 2024, could deliver a double blow to the party: a presidential bid that harms President Biden next year and virtually hands a key Senate seat and potential majority in the chamber to the GOP.

“Joe is America’s biggest political tease,” Sen. d!(k Durbin (Ill.), the No. 2 Senate Democrat, told The Hill. “And I trust that he’ll make a judgment to run for reelection in West Virginia. I hope he will.” 

For much of the first two years of Biden’s presidency, Manchin held the keys to unlocking his agenda in the upper chamber, to the chagrin of many of his colleagues. Now, he could hold the keys to Democrats’ attempts to keep a Senate majority.

Manchin will appear alongside former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman (R) at St. Anselm College in the first of a series of “Common Sense” town halls No Labels is hosting. The incumbent senator said in a statement that most Americans are “exceedingly frustrated by the growing divide in our political parties and toxic political rhetoric from our elected leaders,” adding that he hopes discussions of this kind can be a model for voters.  

“Our political discourse is lacking engaged debates around common sense solutions to solve the pressing issues facing our nation,” he said. “I am looking forward to modeling this type of conversation with my good friend, Gov. Huntsman, and the No Labels community.”

Polls show a third-party bid by a No Labels candidate could create a real headache for Biden, particularly if Trump is the GOP nominee. According to a survey of swing states released by a group of operatives from both parties who are seeking to derail a No Labels candidacy, Biden leads 52 percent to 48 percent in a head-to-head matchup. 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

Interesting idea.  imagine Christie winning the nomination then picking Cheney. 
 

Would MAGAts not vote or vote for them just so a Dem isn’t in office?
 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

21 hours ago, teachercd said:

I have never voted for Trump.  

And I would not vote for him if he is on the ballot in 24.  

Come to think about it, I have never once voted for a republican presidential candidate. 

 

I guess I believe you.

 

Your posting history does give me pause. Some of it seems like an act. But maybe you genuinely are all over the place. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 hours ago, nic said:

The chip manufacturing is where I work. If Taiwan goes down so does a large percentage of the silicon fabs. The investment INTEL and Global Fouderies are putting in place in the US is supposed to mitigate the global problems we will see WHEN China moves on Taiwan. It's good this administration continued the funding, but it's been planned for awhile. Just like the Afghanistan withdrawal. This might be executed better. To answer your question, less of a fine line on China and acknowledging they are not who many think they are wound be nice. Too many in the country bow to China. The steal too mcuh IP. Some are waking up. We should bring manufacturing back. They buy our dept. It's not a good situation. We need to cut them off. I hope we have a plan. 

 

The pandemic handling by both administration's was a disaster. Especially for the kids. We knew who was at risk within 2 month. We needed to adjust accordingly without tanking our economy and kids education. In my opinion both administration's failed. Its probably due to the Ram Emanuel advice. Never waste a good crisis, to get the crap that doesn't matter pushed through. In my opinion (which is worth what you paid for it) neither Trump  nor Biden should have passed those last too spending bills. Waste of money and helped push us to where we are.

 

Is there really a problem with people who trust China too much? Who don't have the insight that apparently you do? People aren't suddenly "waking up" to China, but the rightwing messaging ecosystem has certainly promoted that idea in an attempt to hang it on Biden and Dems.

 

Liberals, human rights advocates, and anyone with IP has been all over China for years. And you don't need to wade very far into China trade issues to realize that U.S. businesses also make tons of money with China, and even the tough on China crowed knows it's not as simple as cutting them off. 

 

Your second paragraph seems to ignore that the U.S. pandemic response was actually pretty horrible for victims of the virus, but surprisingly solid in terms of the economy, which as mentioned several times emerged from the same pandemic in much better shape than countries that never got Rahm Emmanuel's advice. It's quite possible that the last two spending bills are the reason the U.S. emerged from the pandemic more quickly. It was always understood that an inflationary period would come with it, and again, inflation in the U.S. is actually better than most countries. 

 

How hard is it to imagine every current economic statistic being used to show American Exceptionalism and superiority in a global crisis had the Republican administration been left in place?  

 

You seem like a nice guy with genuine curiosity, but you're trading mostly in top line talking points from conservative sources and don't seem able to go the slightest bit beneath that surface. 

[Crusader Husker]

"None of the Above" sounds like a good party name.

 

That is how I will vote anyway.  I hope there is a voter revolt.  Seems like most people on both sides of the isle are voting for the lessor of 2 evils.  

 

 

[teachercd]

Is RFK Jr like a 50 year smoker?  His voice!

 

I would like to see Bobby Jr debate Biden.  Also, is he just now going by Bobby Jr or has he always?

 

 

[teachercd]

I’m sure it’s just Internet chatter, but people are mentioning a possible Trump RFK ticket.