Trump's Post Election Fallout: Legal & Obstruction actions

[DevoHusker]

 

[FrantzHardySwag]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Sasse did as well (again). 

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

Rudy has had a rough month, even by his standards.

[Archy1221]

15 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Ahhh so this is why he didn't have time to fulfill the following campaign promises:

 

Get healthcare fixed, get a border wall built, get Obamacare repealed, bringing back manufacturing, creating a health savings account, investing 550 billion in infrastructure, making no cuts to medicaid, growing the economy by 4% per year, guaranteeing a 6 week paid leave, appointing a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton, Renegotiating the Iran deal, get congress to allow health insurance across state lines, Adding additional federal investments of 20 billion toward School Choice, changing vaccination schedules for school kids, adopting the penny plan, canceling funding for sanctuary cities, expand national right to carry in all 50 states, scale back the US Education department, eliminate Common Core, stop the AT&T Time Warner merger, Triple ICE enforcement, eliminate wasteful spending in every government department, open up libel laws, close parts of the internet where ISIS is, approve the Keystone XL project and reap profits, not take vacations, not golf/vacation as much as Obama, require price transparency from health care providers, and place lifetime bans on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.

 

I'm sure he just didn't have time to do all these things because of some fake news hoax out there.

 

But what he did have time to do is spend more time golfing than Obama, whom he criticized for doing the same.  Obama spent time to play 98 rounds of golf through the first 4 years of his presidency.

 

Trump has spent 248 days at a golf course.  He's wasted almost a year doing something he said he wouldn't do instead of working on the items in the paragraph above.

 

I'd say the Russia fake news hoax thing (which wasn't fake mind you...there was election interference attempted in both this and the last election by foreign countries) you're referencing didn't really affect him that much at all. 

 

I'd say he's just a lousy president who has told over 20,000+ lies and doesn't keep his promises.

As you well know, zero politicians fulfill their campaign promises.  At best they actually get a few of the 50-100 things they all promise.  To make him an outlier in this is just ignorant.  I have no idea if he promised all that, but I’d he did, much of it would have been bluster because he couldn’t do it by himself.  But I will take a crack at a few.  
 

A border wall is currently being built, mostly replacing the old fence with a few new miles sprinkled in.   Without any D support.

Obamacare would have been repealed if not for the flip flopper McCain.  He was against Obamacare before he was for it.  And Trump did get rid of individual mandate. 

 

Manufacturing jobs were a net positive prior to Covid. 
 

no idea what you mean by creating a health savings account.  I currently have an HSA And have had one for years. 
 

Infrastructure was a mistake not to do.  Should have did it before trying to tackle healthcare because he had common cause with D’s

 

Didn’t he exit the Iran deal?  Isn’t there peace deals in the Middle East they didn’t exist before?  You know the ones Obama couldn’t do.  
 

Did you actually want him to investigate Hillary?  I didn’t.  The Clinton Foundation, sure But not her personally.

 

The President does not have the power of the purse 

 

Why change vaccine schedules.  Didn’t realize that was high on the Republican agenda. 
 

few if any Dems will vote for reciprocity.  
 

Keystone XL was a judiciary problem. 
 

healthcare billing has changed some.  The Hospital lobby is one of the more powerful  lobby’s in Washington.  
 

do you want him to open up libel laws?  Don’t think I do. 

 

I don’t remember the penny plan as a priority.  I know it’s a Hannity thing.  Trump is more like Democrats when it comes to government spending.  It’s one of the things that made Never trumpers initially not like him 

His Education secretary fought for more school choice/vouchers.  Dem’s don’t want it and that is a shame.  Minority Inner city kids get crushed by s#!t school districts.  They should have the same chance at a good school as a suburban kid. 

the rest I don’t know or care much about.  And I don’t think other R’s do either 

 

Trump played lots of golf no doubt.  That got overblown with Obama and for overblown with Trump.  Lots of business can be done on a golf course.  
 

Russia tried to meddle in the last election and that’s not a hoax.

 

the Trump/Russia collision story, however, is a hoax and we spent over 2 years on hearing after hearing after hearing on it.  A sham impeachment, see Jonathan Turley (noted far left legal scholar), And yes it derailed an agenda.  Sorry to break it to you.  
 

Policy wise, he was one of the best Presidents we have had in quite sometime.  IMO His problem is that he acts like as a$$ too much.  
 

Undoing some of the damage from the Obama administration could be some of his best achievements.  

[FrantzHardySwag]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

As you well know, zero politicians fulfill their campaign promises.  At best they actually get a few of the 50-100 things they all promise.  To make him an outlier in this is just ignorant.  I have no idea if he promised all that, but I’d he did, much of it would have been bluster because he couldn’t do it by himself.  But I will take a crack at a few.  

Didn't want to quote everything to save space. I've read a few of your posts and I'm genuinely curious. Who is the "politician" you align with most? Seems like you like Trump due to a combo of conservative agenda, and his attitude of not being a "politician". Are you a Trumper all the way, or is there someone else you'd prefer 2024?

[knapplc]

 

[Archy1221]

8 hours ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Didn't want to quote everything to save space. I've read a few of your posts and I'm genuinely curious. Who is the "politician" you align with most? Seems like you like Trump due to a combo of conservative agenda, and his attitude of not being a "politician". Are you a Trumper all the way, or is there someone else you'd prefer 2024?

I like many of his policies but he is a crappy vessel to get those policies enacted.  To answer you last question, I would want to see who’s running and then look into their background and what their 3-4 main priorities would be.  Decide based on that.   No one really gets much more than that done in a given term (large priorities that take legislation anyways).  Hope that answers your question. 

[knapplc]

YEP.  And it's high time the press started treating the country this way. 

 

A third of Americans are registered Independent. More than are registered Dem or GOP. 

 

It's one of the main reasons why "both sides" is a logical fallacy. 

 

 

[TGHusker]

A very good OPED by Peggy Noonan on the current situation and on Thursday's news conference by Trump's legal team.

I've copied the beginning and the end below - but a lot of good points in between.

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-bogus-dispute-is-doing-real-damage-11605832051

 

Quote

 

No hard evidence of widespread fraud, no success in the courts or prospect of it. You can have a theory that a bad thing was done, but only facts will establish it. You need to do more than what Rudy Giuliani did at his news conference Thursday, which was throw out huge, barely comprehensible allegations and call people “crooks.” You need to do more than Sidney Powell, who, at the same news conference, charged that “communist money” is behind an international conspiracy to rig the U.S. election. There was drama, hyperbole, perhaps madness. But the wilder the charges, the more insubstantial the case appeared.

More than two weeks after the election, it’s clear where this is going. The winner will be certified and acknowledged; Joe Biden will be inaugurated. But it’s right to worry about the damage being done on the journey.

It’s one thing when supporters of the president say, simply, “Let’s go through the process and see where we are.” It’s not bad to look into how messy the voting system is, not the worst to realize it needs long-term remedial attention. How did we devolve into a nation that no longer has an election night but an election month?

But the sheer nuttiness surrounding the current mess is becoming deeply destructive. Online you see the websites read by millions saying the entire election system is shot through with criminality. The headlines read: It was stolen. We have proof of coordinated vote tampering. The president has many avenues to victory. The Trump campaign sent an email under the name of formerly respectable Republican Newt Gingrich, once speaker of the House, saying “The Corruption is Unprecedented”: “It’s time for us to get MAD.” We can’t “roll over.” “Please contribute $45 RIGHT NOW to the Official Election Defense Fund.”

This isn’t a game. America isn’t your plaything. Doesn’t Mr. Gingrich realize how dangerous it is to stoke people like this, to rev them up on the idea that holding even the slightest faith in the system is for suckers?

Trump staff and supporters should know at this point that in trying to change the outcome they are doing harm—undercutting respect in and hope for democracy. Republican senators and representatives, in their silence, are allowing the idea to take hold that the whole system is  rigged. This lessens faith in institutions and in their party’s reputation. Republicans were once protective of who we are and what we created in this democratic republic long ago.

 

Ending

Quote

 

There is no realistic route to victory for the president, only to confusion and chaos and undermining. He is not going to find the votes in recounts to win the election. Dominion, the voting-machine company under attack, has not been credibly charged with doing anything wrong. As the Journal said this week in an editorial, “Strong claims need strong proof, not rumors and innuendo on Twitter. ”

The irony is that this election will be remembered for the president’s attempts to sow chaos, not for what it actually appears to have been, which is a triumph for America. In the middle of a pandemic, with new rules, there was historically high turnout. Under stress the system worked. Voters were committed, trusting, and stood in line for hours. There was no violence at the polls, no serious charges of voter suppression. In a time of legitimate hacking fears, there were no reports of foreign interference. Our defenses held. On top of all that, the outcome was moderate: for all the strife and stress of recent years, the split decision amounted to a reassertion of centrism.

You’d think the president would take his winnings and go home, because he had them. He outperformed polls and exceeded his 2016 vote total by more than 10 million. For one brief shining moment, on Nov. 3, he’d finally expanded his base to almost 50% of the electorate. He found new sources of support.

Imagine if he’d acted even remotely normal in his first term, if he’d had the intellectual, emotional and spiritual resources to moderate himself, to act respectably. Heck, imagine if he’d worn a mask. He might have won.

He is set on going out like a villain. He and his people would find this Jacksonian—he’s refusing to bow to entrenched establishments! He would think this is what his base wants—the old battler refusing to accept the illicit judgments of a decadent elite.

If he were clever and disciplined, he’d do it differently. He’d accept the election’s outcome, if not graciously at least with finality, go home to Mar-a-Lago, play golf, and have fun torturing his party by plotting his return. “I’ll be back.”

Instead he leaves behind real and politically pointless ruin.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

42 minutes ago, knapplc said:

YEP.  And it's high time the press started treating the country this way. 

 

A third of Americans are registered Independent. More than are registered Dem or GOP. 

 

It's one of the main reasons why "both sides" is a logical fallacy. 

The reason why the media doesn't cater to the independents in the middle is that the hyper partisan people on either side are the ones that go home and watch "news" programs all night long because their convinced THEY are the most informed people in the world.  

[funhusker]

9 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Agreed...most promises aren't fulfilled.  Just wanted to make sure you knew the list was long on unfulfilled promises over 4 years. 

 

And you think links made by a REPUBLICAN controlled intelligence committee between Russia and Trump associates was a hoax.  That's all the Mueller report made...links.  Links alone don't mean people are up to nefarious things...but they should make you want to know.

 

I know that if any sitting government official had links with a foreign government before they were elected...I'd want to get to the bottom of those links and determine if that government had any sway over this official.  (I'm speaking of loans Trump had from Deutsche Bank financed by foreign entitites...which governments hold those debts?).

 

See, I like EVIDENCE.  We need more to make a determination.  But you calling it a hoax doesn't fit.  There ARE links to Trump and his associates and Russia.  Those links existed before 2016.  People that became members of his staff and his advisors had meetings with Russia before he took office.  Those are all facts mentioned in the Mueller report.  A hoax is something that isn't true.  The only hoax I see is a group of people not wanting the highest office in the USA to have integrity.

The bolded is definitely not a hoax.  It is very real.

 

Supporting some of Trump's policies, I can understand.  But anyone who is actively supporting Trump  "the person" right now is a cancer on American ideals.  

 

@Archy1221 I'm not talking about you, you've mentioned that you think Trump was a poor vessel.  I can appreciate that.  But there are many members on HB that are quiet in the P&R forum that are cheering on in real life as Trump is taking a sledge hammer to democratic procedures.

[funhusker]

2 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Pretty much meant it's a hoax on democracy.

I knew what you were getting at, I wasn't trying to contradict.  

 

I was just using it as a springboard to my point. 

[RedDenver]

 

[RedDenver]

 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Agreed...most promises aren't fulfilled.  Just wanted to make sure you knew the list was long on unfulfilled promises over 4 years. 

 

And you think links made by a REPUBLICAN controlled intelligence committee between Russia and Trump associates was a hoax.  That's all the Mueller report made...links.  Links alone don't mean people are up to nefarious things...but they should make you want to know.

 

I know that if any sitting government official had links with a foreign government before they were elected...I'd want to get to the bottom of those links and determine if that government had any sway over this official.  (I'm speaking of loans Trump had from Deutsche Bank financed by foreign entitites...which governments hold those debts?).

 

See, I like EVIDENCE.  We need more to make a determination.  But you calling it a hoax doesn't fit.  There ARE links to Trump and his associates and Russia.  Those links existed before 2016.  People that became members of his staff and his advisors had meetings with Russia before he took office.  Those are all facts mentioned in the Mueller report.  A hoax is something that isn't true.  The only hoax I see is a group of people not wanting the highest office in the USA to have integrity.

So I assume you be leading the charge for a full China Biden investigation