End of season in jeopardy?

[Hilltop]

2 minutes ago, J-MAGIC said:

 

But you're not pointing out facts. You suggest that the reported numbers of cases are "five to ten times the confirmed number" without citation, and then ignore that almost every credible public health expert estimates something like 100,000 deaths attributable to COVID have gone unreported based on the nation's annual average fatality numbers. You're fitting the facts to say what you want them to say.

 

We all don't have to sit and stare at the walls of our homes and never leave for fear of the virus. If everyone is taking basic precautions then there is stuff we can do safely, and people should! But that also doesn't mean that doing whatever we want is fine or that taking those precautions or limiting some non-essential things is "living in fear". It's not. It's basic intelligence and empathy. And, to get back on topic, not being able to watch teenagers run into each other at high speeds for our entertainment for one year is ... pretty non-essential.

 

My apologies for not citing - Here you go - pick your source.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-06-25-20-intl/h_3d0f7f76cd876d98906e8e84a35e5671

https://abcnews.go.com/US/actual-coronavirus-infections-10-times-higher-official-estimates/story?id=71911571

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/25/coronavirus-cases-10-times-larger/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/27/health/coronavirus-antibodies-asymptomatic.html

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/21/cdc-study-actual-covid-19-cases/ 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-true-coronavirus-count-likely-ten-times-higher-2020-6

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-03-20-intl/h_e41782dc88693f9f09d71b6d7458aae9

 

There are 100s more - I'm sure you are familiar with search engines.

 

I agree, there are more deaths out there to count.  Some Covid related, some quarantine related, some pandemic related, some just from people being afraid to go to the doctor for routine procedures that turned bad.  It's bad for our society to live the way we have.  I have never said "doing whatever we want is fine".  You guys are trying to paint that picture of me.    

[WyoHusker56]

The two hospitals here in Billings, MT which are the largest in the region have started pulling the extra couch/beds that dads usually use in the maternity ward in order to put patients on. They have also taken over vacant buildings and one is building an entire new wing to help with respiratory issues. They've brought in out of state staff and others have come out of retirement. They are both STILL full and completely overwhelmed and the nurses and doctors I know are literally breaking down when they talk about what's going on.

 

So, NO I don't think our current measures are doing enough or that we are "living in fear" instead we are maxing out our healthcare system to the point that people are going to start dying at higher rates of other treatable conditions and they are going to have to decide who they treat an who they don't. So, let's stop pretending like what we are doing is fine or working. It's obviously not.

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

 

My apologies for not citing - Here you go - pick your source.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-06-25-20-intl/h_3d0f7f76cd876d98906e8e84a35e5671

https://abcnews.go.com/US/actual-coronavirus-infections-10-times-higher-official-estimates/story?id=71911571

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/25/coronavirus-cases-10-times-larger/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/27/health/coronavirus-antibodies-asymptomatic.html

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/21/cdc-study-actual-covid-19-cases/ 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-true-coronavirus-count-likely-ten-times-higher-2020-6

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-03-20-intl/h_e41782dc88693f9f09d71b6d7458aae9

 

There are 100s more - I'm sure you are familiar with search engines.

 

I agree, there are more deaths out there to count.  Some Covid related, some quarantine related, some pandemic related, some just from people being afraid to go to the doctor for routine procedures that turned bad.  It's bad for our society to live the way we have.  I have never said "doing whatever we want is fine".  You guys are trying to paint that picture of me.    

 

These links aren't proving the point you think you're making. Sure, infections have been underreported, but deaths have as well. I read the first four links and none of them talked about the underreported deaths. Without that information this is half a data point.

 

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

 

 

 

[Hilltop]

9 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

These links aren't proving the point you think you're making. Sure, infections have been underreported, but deaths have as well. I read the first four links and none of them talked about the underreported deaths. Without that information this is half a data point.

 

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

 

 

 

I agreed previously - we have had more deaths than what is being reported, some of which are undoubtedly Covid related.  I do believe that it's likely that a lot of them are related more to the stress placed on society though.  It's really unhealthy to live in fear/stress.  

 

Just some things to consider - 

https://www.hcplive.com/view/high-stress-levels-result-in-higher-mortality-rates-#:~:text=That's according to the results,you do now%3A stress kills.

 

Also, the CDC disclaimer on their info is worth reading.  

 

The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations. First, the weighting of provisional NVSS mortality data might not fully account for reporting lags, particularly in recent weeks. Estimated numbers of deaths in the most recent weeks are likely underestimated and will increase as more data become available. Second, there is uncertainty associated with the models used to generate the expected numbers of deaths in a given week. A range of values for excess death estimates is provided elsewhere (7), but these ranges might not reflect all of the sources of uncertainty, such as the completeness of provisional data. Third, different methods or models for estimating the expected numbers of deaths might lead to different results. Estimates of the number or percentage of deaths above average levels by race/ethnicity and age reported here might not sum to the total numbers of excess deaths reported elsewhere, which might have been estimated using different methodologies. Fourth, using the average numbers of deaths from past years might underestimate the total expected numbers because of population growth or aging, or because of increasing trends in certain causes such as drug overdose mortality. Finally, estimates of excess deaths attributed to COVID-19 might underestimate the actual number directly attributable to COVID-19, because deaths from other causes might represent misclassified COVID-19–related deaths or deaths indirectly caused by the pandemic. Specifically, deaths from circulatory diseases, Alzheimer disease and dementia, and respiratory diseases have increased in 2020 relative to past years (7), and it is unclear to what extent these represent misclassified COVID-19 deaths or deaths indirectly related to the pandemic (e.g., because of disruptions in health care access or utilization).

[In the Deed the Glory]

I will start this by saying I am absolutely not a liberal or a democrat.  I am not afraid of everything and I believe in personal freedom and responsibility.  The issue is so many what to cry "freedom" but don't want to uphold the "responsibility" end of the bargain.  Also, this isn't directed at any one person or poster--just society as a whole.

 

This idea that we can't just "live in fear' of a virus is absolute horses#!t.  Living in fear used to mean you were cowered up in a bunker with MREs that would last 2 years and thousands of water bottles.  Now if you wear a mask so to be considerate of your fellow man you are a "sheep" and "living in fear".  No, if you don't wear one you are a selfish a$$h@!e and I won't take anything you say seriously.

 

In my school right now, we have 2 staff members in the ICU on oxygen or a ventilator fighting for their lives because they have severe COVID pneumonia.  I have COVID right now.  It sucks.  A few days ago I had chills and coughing so bad that I was headed to the hospital the next day if I didn't improve.  I have ZERO underlying health issues.  I'm a former college athlete who is very active.  My biggest issue now is I am going to miss opening day of deer season.  These other two, they might die.  And why?  Because people don't think this virus is dangerous for high school kids.  It may not be, but it is dangerous for the coaches and teachers that give their entire adult lives in what is many times a thankless job.  They aren't soldiers, but they are LITERALLY on the front lines risking their lives to try to educate students.

 

My wife is a physician assistant.  People just don't understand, if COVID overloads our health care system MILLIONS of people will die.  They just won't die of COVID.  So yes, we treat COVID better than before but that person still takes up a bed and staff.  A bed and staff that would go to the heart attack patient, the stroke patient, the car accident patient, the gun shot victim, the whoever needs it but can't get it BECAUSE COVID IS OUT OF CONTROL BECAUSE MORONS ARE SAYING STUPID s#!t LIKE STOP LIVING IN FEAR.

 

I've had enough.  Shut the f#&% up and wear your mask and stay home.  People shouldn't die because of your stubborn pride.

[knapplc]

Just now, Hilltop said:

I agreed previously - we have had more deaths than what is being reported, some of which are undoubtedly Covid related.  I do believe that it's likely that a lot of them are related more to the stress placed on society though.  It's really unhealthy to live in fear/stress.  

 

 

Per the CDC, this is wrong. Of the 299,000 extra deaths, 2/3 are COVID-19 related. You're just making stuff up with the rest of that. 

 

 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I really, truly want to get past the finger-pointing stage, but I think it's incredibly important for this country to start trusting science, scientists and evidence again. 

[admo]

56 minutes ago, HANC said:

I am just thinking that with all of the teams that are having growing numbers, cancelling games, combined with the many governors really ramping up the restrictions,  that somewhere along the line, football will be shut down.  I 1000% agree that the safest place for kids to be in in the facility.  Just becoming more and more concerned about the season being shut down if the numbers keep growing at this rate.  

 

*  the REAL concern is getting this under control, but this is a football thread, so I am talking from a football standpoint.

 

Maybe a good opportunity to give the youngsters more game reps?  

(if/before a possible shutdown)

[Huskers93-97]

My guess is right about the time all the game cancellations are past us and most college football players have had the virus so the spread will be minimal will be right when they cancel the season.

[Archy1221]

46 minutes ago, In the Deed the Glory said:

I will start this by saying I am absolutely not a liberal or a democrat.  I am not afraid of everything and I believe in personal freedom and responsibility.  The issue is so many what to cry "freedom" but don't want to uphold the "responsibility" end of the bargain.  Also, this isn't directed at any one person or poster--just society as a whole.

 

This idea that we can't just "live in fear' of a virus is absolute horses#!t.  Living in fear used to mean you were cowered up in a bunker with MREs that would last 2 years and thousands of water bottles.  Now if you wear a mask so to be considerate of your fellow man you are a "sheep" and "living in fear".  No, if you don't wear one you are a selfish a$$h@!e and I won't take anything you say seriously.

 

In my school right now, we have 2 staff members in the ICU on oxygen or a ventilator fighting for their lives because they have severe COVID pneumonia.  I have COVID right now.  It sucks.  A few days ago I had chills and coughing so bad that I was headed to the hospital the next day if I didn't improve.  I have ZERO underlying health issues.  I'm a former college athlete who is very active.  My biggest issue now is I am going to miss opening day of deer season.  These other two, they might die.  And why?  Because people don't think this virus is dangerous for high school kids.  It may not be, but it is dangerous for the coaches and teachers that give their entire adult lives in what is many times a thankless job.  They aren't soldiers, but they are LITERALLY on the front lines risking their lives to try to educate students.

 

My wife is a physician assistant.  People just don't understand, if COVID overloads our health care system MILLIONS of people will die.  They just won't die of COVID.  So yes, we treat COVID better than before but that person still takes up a bed and staff.  A bed and staff that would go to the heart attack patient, the stroke patient, the car accident patient, the gun shot victim, the whoever needs it but can't get it BECAUSE COVID IS OUT OF CONTROL BECAUSE MORONS ARE SAYING STUPID s#!t LIKE STOP LIVING IN FEAR.

 

I've had enough.  Shut the f#&% up and wear your mask and stay home.  People shouldn't die because of your stubborn pride.

Telling people to shut the F up and stay home is not a good way to win people over.  
 

People should wear a mask.  However, Telling people to stay home is ignorant.  People have to make a living or suicide rates will soar.  People have to get their general medical check ups or deaths outside of COVID will soar.  
 

Kids NEED to be in school as much as possible or teen Suicides will SOAR.  WHO and CDC have both states that spread does not occur in school situations.  So stop blaming High School kids for spread.  
 

The CDC is saying that the majority of spread taking place now is because of small gatherings in homes.  If people want to make a difference then go about your lives in a respectful manner to keep the economy going, social distance, wear a mask, go to school, don’t have people over to your house if you live in a hot zone and avoid going to others for the time being.  

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Telling people to shut the F up and stay home is not a good way to win people over.  
 

People should wear a mask.  However, Telling people to stay home is ignorant.  People have to make a living or suicide rates will soar.  People have to get their general medical check ups or deaths outside of COVID will soar.  
 

Kids NEED to be in school as much as possible or teen Suicides will SOAR.  WHO and CDC have both states that spread does not occur in school situations.  So stop blaming High School kids for spread.  
 

The CDC is saying that the majority of spread taking place now is because of small gatherings in homes.  If people want to make a difference then go about your lives in a respectful manner to keep the economy going, social distance, wear a mask, go to school, don’t have people over to your house if you live in a hot zone and avoid going to others for the time being.  

 

Do you have any source for the allegation that suicide rates will soar if we have a lockdown? Countries around the world have been in various states of lockdown throughout the pandemic. Have suicide rates "soared" in those countries? And if so, how do those suicide rates compare to deaths from COVID-19?

 

I can't find a source for the CDC and/or WHO saying spread "does not occur" in schools. High School kids definitely do contribute to spread, although it does appear that children 10 & under are not significant spreaders. High School kids have contributed, but at a lower rate than adults. 

 

 

[teachercd]

I saw today that suicide rates are up 200%, no clue if that was legit or not and I don't care to try and find a link.

 

HS kids have it like crazy, so do MS kids, they are the super spreaders right now.  10% of one MS student body is currently at home locked up at the moment, here in Omaha 

 

The good news is, it only takes 2 weeks (and 7 months) to flatten the curve.  (Relax dorks, just having fun)

[Archy1221]

15 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Do you have any source for the allegation that suicide rates will soar if we have a lockdown? Countries around the world have been in various states of lockdown throughout the pandemic. Have suicide rates "soared" in those countries? And if so, how do those suicide rates compare to deaths from COVID-19?

 

I can't find a source for the CDC and/or WHO saying spread "does not occur" in schools. High School kids definitely do contribute to spread, although it does appear that children 10 & under are not significant spreaders. High School kids have contributed, but at a lower rate than adults. 

 

 

https://statsiq.co1.qualtrics.com/public-dashboard/v0/dashboard/5f78e5d4de521a001036f78e#/dashboard/5f78e5d4de521a001036f78e?pageId=Page_5c13d2b8-2457-4580-94f6-27aa0d94be1a

[Archy1221]

18 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Do you have any source for the allegation that suicide rates will soar if we have a lockdown? Countries around the world have been in various states of lockdown throughout the pandemic. Have suicide rates "soared" in those countries? And if so, how do those suicide rates compare to deaths from COVID-19?

 

I can't find a source for the CDC and/or WHO saying spread "does not occur" in schools. High School kids definitely do contribute to spread, although it does appear that children 10 & under are not significant spreaders. High School kids have contributed, but at a lower rate than adults. 

 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02973-3
 

[Archy1221]

23 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Do you have any source for the allegation that suicide rates will soar if we have a lockdown? Countries around the world have been in various states of lockdown throughout the pandemic. Have suicide rates "soared" in those countries? And if so, how do those suicide rates compare to deaths from COVID-19?

 

I can't find a source for the CDC and/or WHO saying spread "does not occur" in schools. High School kids definitely do contribute to spread, although it does appear that children 10 & under are not significant spreaders. High School kids have contributed, but at a lower rate than adults. 

 

 

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/08/05/pandemics-effect-on-already-rising-suicide-rates-heightens-worry/
 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm
 

https://www.shadac.org/2020SuicideBriefs