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Denying science in the classroom


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#1 knapplc

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HB Donor Silver

Posted 08 February 2017 - 09:20 AM

Four states have pending bills which will effectively allow teaching of Creationism in science classrooms. 

 

 

An ‘alternative facts’ South Dakota bill sparks fears for science education in the Trump era
 
The bill is one of four that have been introduced so far in 2017 in state legislatures — the others are in Indiana, Oklahoma and Texas  — that would allow science denial in the classroom. Since 2014, at least 60 “academic freedom” bills  — which permit teachers to paint established science as controversial — have been filed in state legislatures all over the country. Louisiana passed one in 2008, and Tennessee did, too, in 2012.
 
Some version of the South Dakota bill has been introduced into the state’s legislature for each of the past four years, but this is the first time it passed in the house in which it originated. The Senate approved it, 23 to 12.  The state House is dominated by Republicans, so critics of the legislation are hoping they can stop it in the House Education Committee before it reaches the floor.
 
Glenn Branch, deputy director of the National Center for Science Education, a nonprofit that defends the teaching of evolution and climate change, agrees with Wolf’s reading of the bill and said he is concerned that President Trump’s denial/questioning of man-made climate change and Vice President Pence’s denial of the theory of evolution could encourage state legislators to push through new anti-science legislation.


 

Science bill leaves teachers, parents worried

Ross Blank-Libra, a science teacher at Washington High School, said he does not see a need for legislators to create laws about what's taught in the classroom.

"I thought that when the state adopted standards, that pretty much takes care of what we talk about in class," Blank-Libra said.

Blank-Libra added that he sees no problem with instruction on creationism and other nonscientific topics, but whenever a student brings up those topics in his classroom, he's got a standard response:

"That isn't science, and so we're not going to teach that in a science class."

 

 

Time and time and time again we see efforts to put religion into public school curriculum.  Why can't people understand that religious instruction belongs at home? 


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#2 Bigred_inSD

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 09:57 AM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.
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#3 TGHusker

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:09 AM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

Here I'll do it for you :facepalm: :facepalm:  Since I'm from SD also.  I don't miss the cold.


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#4 commando

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:14 AM

 

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

Here I'll do it for you :facepalm: :facepalm:  Since I'm from SD also.  I don't miss the cold.

 

with this new administration and their disbelief in science.....south dakota will be tropical soon enough


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#5 BigRedBuster

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:14 AM

My question is, why is this a legislature bill issue?  Do they pass bills as to what type of math, history, english...etc, is taught?

This should be a debate with the state school boards and their local school boards.  People who actually have educational experience and knowledge debating and making these decisions instead of political figures who pander one way or the other.


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#6 Bigred_inSD

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:20 AM


Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

Here I'll do it for you :facepalm: :facepalm:  Since I'm from SD also.  I don't miss the cold.

Thanks.

Other crazy bills, SB 89 would make it legal to sue gun free zones if a violent crime happened there. Senators also want to carry their guns right into the chamber during bill discussuon because they are "sitting ducks" we are trying to become the wild west again
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#7 teachercd

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:23 AM

My question is, why is this a legislature bill issue?  Do they pass bills as to what type of math, history, english...etc, is taught?

This should be a debate with the state school boards and their local school boards.  People who actually have educational experience and knowledge debating and making these decisions instead of political figures who pander one way or the other.

Yep!


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#8 dudeguyy

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:28 AM

The hell is wrong with SD? Between the stuff Br_inSD is describing, the creationism bill, and their repeal of the corruption law - their legislature is aiming to turn them into the new Kansas. Yikes. I feel for you, man.

 

Gosh, conservatives are really skilled at masking some pretty terrible policies in words like "freedom" and "choice". It's a shame they push for such terribly exclusionary policies.


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#9 NUance

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

Why do they do this?  We all know for a fact that the universe sprang from a point of singularity which expanded greatly. And then conditions were just right on some planets for life to spark into existence. Somehow that first simple life form became able to reproduce. Then it evolved into mankind and all life on earth. It's fact! 

 

Why don't we just look at experimental results.  I mean, it's a well known fact that you can mix the right combination of chemicals together in a lab, and zap it with electricity, and a functioning, reproducing cell will result.  And that cell will then reproduce, and through random mutations, form into generations of increasingly complex lifeforms until it culminates in the 1985 Chicago bears.  Look at the experimental results people!  Scientists are smart!

 

 

 

/sarcasm   :lol:


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It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then winter came and the grasshopper died. And the octopus ate all his acorns. Also he got a race car. Is any of this getting through to you?
 

 


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#10 knapplc

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HB Donor Silver

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:40 AM

Who had ninth post in the pool?  Collect your winnings at the front desk.
 

:D


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#11 NUance

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:43 AM

Who had ninth post in the pool?  Collect your winnings at the front desk.
 

:D

 

Ha ha!  Some lower number would have won if I had gotten back to my desk earlier from that meeting!   :lol:


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It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then winter came and the grasshopper died. And the octopus ate all his acorns. Also he got a race car. Is any of this getting through to you?
 

 


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#12 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:49 AM

Omg, the end of intelligent civilization draws nearer w each passage of these insane laws. Isn't it against the Consitution to teach religious philosophies in public schools anyway? Nevermind that, "Creation Science" is a direct attack on real science.

It just never ends with these people.

Send 'em to Noah's Ark Theme Park in good ol', shucks, KY if they want to torture themselves with that crap. And don't let them out to infect everybody else.

I feel sorry for the innocent minds that are getting abused with this bogus "science".
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#13 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:55 AM

If they want to teach it in a course on comparative religions, open to critical scrutiny, then that's fine, or comparative superstition, but no way can this be allowed to be taught as "science".
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#14 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:01 AM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?
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#15 Moiraine

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:05 AM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?


The DNA testing they do doesn't link you with specific people. It shows your ethnic origins.
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#16 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:10 AM

Why do they do this?  We all know for a fact that the universe sprang from a point of singularity which expanded greatly. And then conditions were just right on some planets for life to spark into existence. Somehow that first simple life form became able to reproduce. Then it evolved into mankind and all life on earth. It's fact! 
 
Why don't we just look at experimental results.  I mean, it's a well known fact that you can mix the right combination of chemicals together in a lab, and zap it with electricity, and a functioning, reproducing cell will result.  And that cell will then reproduce, and through random mutations, form into generations of increasingly complex lifeforms until it culminates in the 1985 Chicago bears.  Looks at the experimental results people!  Scientists are smart!
 
 
 
/sarcasm  :lol:

Scientists haven't reproduced the beginnings of organic life as you describe, but they have, with that Haldon(?) Accelerator reproduced some tiny successes with molecular configuration, so they're on the right track anyway.
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#17 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:17 AM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?
The DNA testing they do doesn't link you with specific people. It shows your ethnic origins.
I figured that. So they are kind of a rip off. You don't get to know about Chuck unless somebody wrote it down. My friend from India says they have ancestries written down specifically going back for millenia, like they are serious about it, so you can know your actual clan--if you are Indian.
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#18 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:21 AM

^ also, evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life


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#19 Bigred_inSD

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:25 AM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?

She also believes vaccines cause autism. So she's not the sharpest tool in the shed.
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#20 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:27 AM

^ also, evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life

True, but evolution(natural selection) is what took place after organic life got going.
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#21 Rike Miley

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:34 AM

Why do they do this?  We all know for a fact that the universe sprang from a point of singularity which expanded greatly. And then conditions were just right on some planets for life to spark into existence. Somehow that first simple life form became able to reproduce. Then it evolved into mankind and all life on earth. It's fact! 
 
Why don't we just look at experimental results.  I mean, it's a well known fact that you can mix the right combination of chemicals together in a lab, and zap it with electricity, and a functioning, reproducing cell will result.  And that cell will then reproduce, and through random mutations, form into generations of increasingly complex lifeforms until it culminates in the 1985 Chicago bears.  Looks at the experimental results people!  Scientists are smart!
 
 
 
/sarcasm  :lol:

No, no, no its much more realistic that one almighty, all-seeing, all-loving deity created the entire universe in 6 days. Decided to kick back with two of his greatest friends, himself and himself, for a cold beer on the seventh because he was tired from all the work. Decided the world needed some sort of species to look like him so he took clay and dirt to make this being. But that wasnt good enough, this really stupid god-like being needed another stupid god-like being with longer hair. So this deity took the 13th rib from the first stupid god-like being and created the long hair god-like being.

But this deity wanted to keep these two god-like being from being critical and free thinkers. It loved the fact they were stupid as hell and couldnt question their existence. But he wanted to test them so he created an apple and said dont eat this. But because these stupid god-like beings are not actually god, and god actually messed up when creating them on accident, they felt intrigued by this apple. Then a talking snake showed up out of nowhere and told them to eat the apple. They didnt understand what this creature even was or that these creatures dont talk, so these two stupid god-like beings were confused and ate the apple. They then became really embarrassed because neither of them had clothes on, even though clothes werent even a thing yet. And the deity told them well now that you are smarter, I cant help you anymore and if you mess up I will torture you for eternity in a pit of fire.

Couple thousand years went by, including a flood that killed every god-like person, now called sinners, and every animal except for two on Earth because this deity wanted to start over. Two kangaroos traveled thousands of miles to get on this boat. Two penguins from Antartica did the same thing. It was quite remarkable actually. So after this deity killed everyone to start over he decided to make a loophole for his mistake, so he sacrificed himself to himself and everyone was saved, except for the folks that were born too early in history, they are being tortured for eternity. Yay! This is way more realistic than your stupid theory!

Sarcasm :)
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#22 Moiraine

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:23 PM

 

 

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?

She also believes vaccines cause autism. So she's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

 

 

I found out today that vaccines cause Alzheimer's.

 

I guess I should tell that to all my dead female relatives who had Alzheimer's who grew up before vaccines were widely used.


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#23 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:02 PM

Why do they do this?  We all know for a fact that the universe sprang from a point of singularity which expanded greatly. And then conditions were just right on some planets for life to spark into existence. Somehow that first simple life form became able to reproduce. Then it evolved into mankind and all life on earth. It's fact! 
 
Why don't we just look at experimental results.  I mean, it's a well known fact that you can mix the right combination of chemicals together in a lab, and zap it with electricity, and a functioning, reproducing cell will result.  And that cell will then reproduce, and through random mutations, form into generations of increasingly complex lifeforms until it culminates in the 1985 Chicago bears.  Looks at the experimental results people!  Scientists are smart!
 
 
 
/sarcasm  :lol:

No, no, no its much more realistic that one almighty, all-seeing, all-loving deity created the entire universe in 6 days. Decided to kick back with two of his greatest friends, himself and himself, for a cold beer on the seventh because he was tired from all the work. Decided the world needed some sort of species to look like him so he took clay and dirt to make this being. But that wasnt good enough, this really stupid god-like being needed another stupid god-like being with longer hair. So this deity took the 13th rib from the first stupid god-like being and created the long hair god-like being.

But this deity wanted to keep these two god-like being from being critical and free thinkers. It loved the fact they were stupid as hell and couldnt question their existence. But he wanted to test them so he created an apple and said dont eat this. But because these stupid god-like beings are not actually god, and god actually messed up when creating them on accident, they felt intrigued by this apple. Then a talking snake showed up out of nowhere and told them to eat the apple. They didnt understand what this creature even was or that these creatures dont talk, so these two stupid god-like beings were confused and ate the apple. They then became really embarrassed because neither of them had clothes on, even though clothes werent even a thing yet. And the deity told them well now that you are smarter, I cant help you anymore and if you mess up I will torture you for eternity in a pit of fire.

Couple thousand years went by, including a flood that killed every god-like person, now called sinners, and every animal except for two on Earth because this deity wanted to start over. Two kangaroos traveled thousands of miles to get on this boat. Two penguins from Antartica did the same thing. It was quite remarkable actually. So after this deity killed everyone to start over he decided to make a loophole for his mistake, so he sacrificed himself to himself and everyone was saved, except for the folks that were born too early in history, they are being tortured for eternity. Yay! This is way more realistic than your stupid theory!

Sarcasm :)
LOLOLOLOLOLOL, fab!!! Did you know that Noah invented the Pooper Scooper?

One other thing, why did Gawd give Eve a va-JJ?

(Ans: so Adam would talk to her...OUCH!)
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#24 The Big Nebrowski

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:09 PM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?
She also believes vaccines cause autism. So she's not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Been listening to Alex Jones, prlly.
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#25 knapplc

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HB Donor Silver

Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:14 PM

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?

She also believes vaccines cause autism. So she's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Been listening to Alex Jones, prlly.


Or Rush.
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#26 Bigred_inSD

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:25 AM

South Dakota is also working on a bill that won't allow gays, and single parents to adopt because Jesus would frown in their most humble and biggoted opinion.
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#27 NM11046

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:40 AM

 

 

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?


The DNA testing they do doesn't link you with specific people. It shows your ethnic origins.

 

There are a couple different versions (I think there are three or four solid ones now) looking at different markers that do some ties to specific people.  

 

We just did all the research on this - my dad and I took the one that looks at ethnic origins but there are others.  This will also be able to look at mine and correlate it to others who have taken the test, so if anyone else paid the $80 it will align me to my actual relatives as well.  We are all in a database moving forward.   

 

It's really interesting what they're able to do now - sadly, much of it is only with the male markers, so better have a brother.  :-(

 

Edit:  here's a good overview  http://www.toptenrev...s/#main_article


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#28 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:26 AM

I read this thread and am fascinated.

 

I am fascinated because in the "Republican Utopia" thread I stated a bunch of things, such as Republicans wanting to teach creationism in schools, and the "consensus" seemed to be that I was being "too extreme."

 

And yet, here we are, in another, completely separate thread, discussing actual proof of how the "Republican Utopia" ala the absurd, religious based, laws currently in various state legislatures, are gaining more steam and are almost guaranteed to pass and become law.

 

Given what I have said, and how literally everything I said in the "Utopia" thread is being done by Republicans, in various states across the US...but I'm the one who's extreme.

 

Seems 100% legit. 

 

:LOLtartar  

 

Anyway, carry on.


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#29 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:59 PM

I read this thread and am fascinated.

 

I am fascinated because in the "Republican Utopia" thread I stated a bunch of things, such as Republicans wanting to teach creationism in schools, and the "consensus" seemed to be that I was being "too extreme."

 

And yet, here we are, in another, completely separate thread, discussing actual proof of how the "Republican Utopia" ala the absurd, religious based, laws currently in various state legislatures, are gaining more steam and are almost guaranteed to pass and become law.

 

Given what I have said, and how literally everything I said in the "Utopia" thread is being done by Republicans, in various states across the US...but I'm the one who's extreme.

 

Seems 100% legit. 

 

:LOLtartar  

 

Anyway, carry on.

 

 

 

 

What you said was that a majority of Republicans supported a majority of the 12 points you made. Further, your point wasn't as simple as fighting for creationism to be taught, but was much more dramatic:

 

 

 

 

* Abolish science as a subject taught in schools and completely forbid teaching evolution.

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#30 TAKODA

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

 

 

 

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?


The DNA testing they do doesn't link you with specific people. It shows your ethnic origins.

 

There are a couple different versions (I think there are three or four solid ones now) looking at different markers that do some ties to specific people.  

 

We just did all the research on this - my dad and I took the one that looks at ethnic origins but there are others.  This will also be able to look at mine and correlate it to others who have taken the test, so if anyone else paid the $80 it will align me to my actual relatives as well.  We are all in a database moving forward.   

 

It's really interesting what they're able to do now - sadly, much of it is only with the male markers, so better have a brother.  :-(

 

Edit:  here's a good overview  http://www.toptenrev...s/#main_article

 

To the bold. You do have a brother, a Big Brother, and he has the data in your data base. He goes by many names, but most recently by the alias of AI.


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#31 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:59 PM

Landlord of Memorial Stadium said: What you said was that a majority of Republicans supported a majority of the 12 points you made. Further, your point wasn't as simple as fighting for creationism to be taught, but was much more dramatic:

 

* Abolish science as a subject taught in schools and completely forbid teaching evolution.

 

I have a relative who is one of these far-right, conservative, religious Christians and promotes abolishing of all science in school.  Routinely calling scientists,

 

"A bunch of atheists and communists whose sole agenda is to destroy America by teaching people that: 1) the Earth is 4+ billion years old, 2) dinosaurs were real, and 3) some things are difficult to understand.  All you need to understand everything is the Bible."

 

Those are his exact words.  Laugh, snicker, roll your eyes all you want, but people who believe stuff like that, they're out there...and there are more of them than you think.

 

And my fear is that getting creation taught in schools is just the first step of a much larger, theocracy, plan.

 

The United States is regressing.  We are already falling behind the rest of the developed world in math and science.  This teaching creationism, and allowing our children to be indoctrinated into believing these religious fairy tales and lies, will only make matters worse.

 

 

 

 

 


 


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#32 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:01 PM

 

 

 

 

Another reason for me to facepalm for my state. There is one legislature from Pennington county who believes those ancestry websites are a government conspiracy to collect your DNA and rob you blind if you have money to inherit.

I wonder, how do they have comparative DNA samples from your alleged ancestors in the 1st place, i.e., how can they know about your great great great grandpappy Chuck in Zimbabwe, when molecular science didn't exist for Chuck?


The DNA testing they do doesn't link you with specific people. It shows your ethnic origins.

 

There are a couple different versions (I think there are three or four solid ones now) looking at different markers that do some ties to specific people.  

 

We just did all the research on this - my dad and I took the one that looks at ethnic origins but there are others.  This will also be able to look at mine and correlate it to others who have taken the test, so if anyone else paid the $80 it will align me to my actual relatives as well.  We are all in a database moving forward.   

 

It's really interesting what they're able to do now - sadly, much of it is only with the male markers, so better have a brother.  :-(

 

Edit:  here's a good overview  http://www.toptenrev...s/#main_article

 

To the bold. You do have a brother, a Big Brother, and he has the data in your data base. He goes by many names, but most recently by the alias of AI.

 

 

Where's the "Clean Slate" when you really need it?


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#33 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:06 PM

Those are his exact words.  Laugh, snicker, roll your eyes all you want, but people who believe stuff like that, they're out there...and there are more of them than you think.

 

And my fear is that getting creation taught in schools is just the first step of a much larger, theocracy, plan.

 

The United States is regressing.  We are already falling behind the rest of the developed world in math and science.  This teaching creationism, and allowing our children to be indoctrinated into believing these religious fairy tales and lies, will only make matters worse.

 

 

Again, you very liberally make assumptions about what I am and am not informed about. I'm perfectly aware those people exist. I know that, because I used to be one of them. I have about a dozen books on creationism in a box somewhere, because at one time I was a champion for it. 

 

 

 

It's fine if you're scared of creationism being the beginning to a slippery slope. I'm not. People like your relative are a relic that will die out with the inevitability of scientific progression, and theocracy will never be a reality in this country. Not in our lifetime, at least. Most theists don't even have a desire for it. 


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#34 Rike Miley

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:28 PM

The year 2017 and we are talking about abolishing science and teaching creatism instead of talking about and celebrating finding a cure for cancer.  The human race is de-volving.


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#35 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:02 PM

The year 2017 and we are talking about abolishing science and teaching creatism instead of talking about and celebrating finding a cure for cancer.  The human race is de-volving.

 

 

I think we're talking about both things.

 

 

Your last sentence is very ironically funny considering it's inaccuracy in a thread about science in classrooms though :lol:


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#36 Rike Miley

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:04 PM

 

The year 2017 and we are talking about abolishing science and teaching creatism instead of talking about and celebrating finding a cure for cancer.  The human race is de-volving.

 

 

I think we're talking about both things.

 

 

Your last sentence is very ironically funny considering it's inaccuracy in a thread about science in classrooms though :lol:

 

 

They found a cure for cancer?

 

My point is by this time in history, these diseases should be or close to being eradicated from the Earth.  And instead of that happening, we are talking about laws being passed that will teach creationism vs. evolution.  That is a problem imo.


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#37 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:08 PM

 

Those are his exact words.  Laugh, snicker, roll your eyes all you want, but people who believe stuff like that, they're out there...and there are more of them than you think.

 

And my fear is that getting creation taught in schools is just the first step of a much larger, theocracy, plan.

 

The United States is regressing.  We are already falling behind the rest of the developed world in math and science.  This teaching creationism, and allowing our children to be indoctrinated into believing these religious fairy tales and lies, will only make matters worse.

 

 

Again, you very liberally make assumptions about what I am and am not informed about. I'm perfectly aware those people exist. I know that, because I used to be one of them. I have about a dozen books on creationism in a box somewhere, because at one time I was a champion for it. 

 

 

 

It's fine if you're scared of creationism being the beginning to a slippery slope. I'm not. People like your relative are a relic that will die out with the inevitability of scientific progression, and theocracy will never be a reality in this country. Not in our lifetime, at least. Most theists don't even have a desire for it. 

 

I have never said I am talking specifically about Landlord of Memorial Stadium.

 

What I say is based on: 1) political stories on yahoo, msn, etc that I read and 2) people I actually know, and what I have heard directly from their respective mouths.

 

As to the part in bold, I would hope so.  But given how religion based legislation is advancing in many state legislatures, I am not nearly as optimistic.


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#38 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:49 PM

You specifically implied that I don't have an awareness of those kinds of people existing.


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#39 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:49 PM

They found a cure for cancer?

 

My point is by this time in history, these diseases should be or close to being eradicated from the Earth.  And instead of that happening, we are talking about laws being passed that will teach creationism vs. evolution.  That is a problem imo.

 

 

 

Have you heard of CRISPR? Pretty insane stuff. The media hasn't really gotten wind of it yet, but it's shaping up to be one of the most revolutionary discoveries ever. This is long, but well worth the watch:

 

 


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#40 84HuskerLaw

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:56 PM

Until 'science' disproves creation, I don't see how the 'scientists' can argue it is somehow unscientific.   I have seen many scientific program on all such things and own the "Cosmos" series and enjoy it and find it tremendously educational but even the great Carl Sagan, who spent most of his life as a brilliant scientist and thinker without much religious faith, could not disprove nor even ultimately deny the existence of the Creator, etc.  

What is the latest scientific explanation for the existence of everything?    The 'big bang' seems to be a perfect scientific description of creation,.  Who or what 'caused' the bang and who made everything from nothing?

I find both explantions to be quite compatible and logical - both are correct in that sense.   ?   


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#41 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 06:06 PM

Until 'science' disproves creation, I don't see how the 'scientists' can argue it is somehow unscientific.

 

If, by 'creation', you mean 'young earth creationism', it already has. A million times over.

 

 

 

 

 

The 'big bang' seems to be a perfect scientific description of creation,.  Who or what 'caused' the bang and who made everything from nothing?

 

The Big Bang wasn't actually a bang, but the rapid expansion of an already spacially infinite universe.


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#42 RedDenver

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 07:04 PM

Until 'science' disproves creation, I don't see how the 'scientists' can argue it is somehow unscientific.

You're confusing "scientific" with "truth". Creationism is decidedly unscientific because it's basis is not based on the scientific method, regardless of whether it's true or not.

 

And evolution is based on science and is therefore scientific, regardless of whether it's true or not.


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#43 Moiraine

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 07:25 PM

Until 'science' disproves creation, I don't see how the 'scientists' can argue it is somehow unscientific.   I have seen many scientific program on all such things and own the "Cosmos" series and enjoy it and find it tremendously educational but even the great Carl Sagan, who spent most of his life as a brilliant scientist and thinker without much religious faith, could not disprove nor even ultimately deny the existence of the Creator, etc.  
What is the latest scientific explanation for the existence of everything?    The 'big bang' seems to be a perfect scientific description of creation,.  Who or what 'caused' the bang and who made everything from nothing?
I find both explantions to be quite compatible and logical - both are correct in that sense.   ?   


Creationism is not the same as Creation. E.g. I believe in biblical creation but I don't believe the earth is 8k years old. I also believe in evolution.

Creationism is usually used to describe those who believe in the 6-8k year old earth and don't believe in evolution. They see "day" in Genesis as a literal day.

As LOMS has said, creationism has been proven wrong. Creation hasn't.
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#44 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:15 PM

 

They found a cure for cancer?

 

My point is by this time in history, these diseases should be or close to being eradicated from the Earth.  And instead of that happening, we are talking about laws being passed that will teach creationism vs. evolution.  That is a problem imo.

 

 

 

Have you heard of CRISPR? Pretty insane stuff. The media hasn't really gotten wind of it yet, but it's shaping up to be one of the most revolutionary discoveries ever. This is long, but well worth the watch:

 

 

 

There was a Time magazine article on it a while back and yes, CRISPR will fundamentally change the evolution of the human race forever.

 

The implications of what CRISPR can do are mind-boggling.


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#45 knapplc

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:20 AM

These billboards were put up in Amarillo, TX.  Two of them went up, apparently.

 

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#46 commando

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:23 AM

These billboards were put up in Amarillo, TX.  Two of them went up, apparently.

 

whmS8x1.jpg

the lack of vaccines can cause pandemics


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#47 NUance

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:02 AM

I have two issues with this thread.  First, why is it that people who don't believe in creationism always pick the low hanging fruit of Christianity to attack?  They always seem to paint all Christians as fundamentalists who believe in a six day creation. A lot of Christians--myself included--suspect that creationism took place over billions of years under the guiding hand of God, rather than in six days.  I suspect that there are misinterpretations in our current understanding of the bible story due to our lack of familiarity with the written language of 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, and due to the limits of written language back then.  

 

The second issue I have is our own conceit in being so certain of our answers for these things.  I mean, imagine the concept of omniscience.  Or if you don't believe in God-like omniscience, imagine the amount of knowledge it would take to create and maintain the universe and all life in it.  If you label a graph of intelligence from 0 to 100, with 100 being omniscience, how far along that graph do you think humanity is?  I'll tell you what, we are an awful lot closer to 0 than we are to 100.  I seriously doubt if we are even 1% of the way towards the omniscience it would take to create and maintain the universe.  I mean, with all the technology in the world today, we cannot even build a butterfly.  Shoot, we only yesterday discovered that the earth isn't the center of the universe, and instead orbits around the sun.  Okay, it was 500 years ago, not yesterday.  But you get the point:  We are not remotely close to knowing for ourselves the specifics of how the universe was created.  Or who, if anyone, created it.  Despite this, there are quite a few people in this thread who seem certain of themselves.  

 

Finally, I think if you were able to contemplate the origin of the universe with no preconceived notions one way or the other (as if that's even possible), both possibilities seem equally implausible:  

  • The universe sprang from a point of singularity which expanded greatly. Conditions were just right on some planets for life to spark into existence. Somehow that simple lifeform developed DNA and became able to reproduce as plants and simple one celled organisms. Over a long period of time the lifeforms continued to reproduce, and eventually evolved into mankind and complex system of life we have on earth. 
  • The universe was created by an omniscient, all powerful God. He designed the universe, including the earth and mankind. Although He is apparently very large and ever present people cannot see him, and He doesn’t talk to just anyone. He wants us to worship him.

 

 

Now I can get off my   :boxosoap


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It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then winter came and the grasshopper died. And the octopus ate all his acorns. Also he got a race car. Is any of this getting through to you?
 

 


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#48 NM11046

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:30 AM

 

These billboards were put up in Amarillo, TX.  Two of them went up, apparently.

 

whmS8x1.jpg

the lack of vaccines can cause pandemics

 

Pandemics are gods way of killing off the sinners and liberals.


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#49 knapplc

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

I have two issues with this thread.  First, why is it that people who don't believe in creationism always pick the low hanging fruit of Christianity to attack?  They always seem to paint all Christians as fundamentalists who believe in a six day creation. A lot of Christians--myself included--suspect that creationism took place over billions of years under the guiding hand of God, rather than in six days.  I suspect that there are misinterpretations in our current understanding of the bible story due to our lack of familiarity with the written language of 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, and due to the limits of written language back then.  

 

The second issue I have is our own conceit in being so certain of our answers for these things.  I mean, imagine the concept of omniscience.  Or if you don't believe in God-like omniscience, imagine the amount of knowledge it would take to create and maintain the universe and all life in it.  If you label a graph of intelligence from 0 to 100, with 100 being omniscience, how far along that graph do you think humanity is?  I'll tell you what, we are an awful lot closer to 0 than we are to 100.  I seriously doubt if we are even 1% of the way towards the omniscience it would take to create and maintain the universe.  I mean, with all the technology in the world today, we cannot even build a butterfly.  Shoot, we only yesterday discovered that the earth isn't the center of the universe, and instead orbits around the sun.  Okay, it was 500 years ago, not yesterday.  But you get the point:  We are not remotely close to knowing for ourselves the specifics of how the universe was created.  Or who, if anyone, created it.  Despite this, there are quite a few people in this thread who seem certain of themselves.  

 

Finally, I think if you were able to contemplate the origin of the universe with no preconceived notions one way or the other (as if that's even possible), both possibilities seem equally implausible:  

  • The universe sprang from a point of singularity which expanded greatly. Conditions were just right on some planets for life to spark into existence. Somehow that simple lifeform developed DNA and became able to reproduce as plants and simple one celled organisms. Over a long period of time the lifeforms continued to reproduce, and eventually evolved into mankind and complex system of life we have on earth. 
  • The universe was created by an omniscient, all powerful God. He designed the universe, including the earth and mankind. Although He is apparently very large and ever present people cannot see him, and He doesn’t talk to just anyone. He wants us to worship him.

 

 

Now I can get off my   :boxosoap

 

 

 

 

Christianity claims to be certain of the origins of the universe. I don't know if this is the "conceit" you're talking about, but of the two (science and religion), only one claims certainty. 

 

Of the two, (science and religion) we have more evidence of one being the more likely source of the universe. If there were sufficient evidence for a better hypothesis, science would teach that evidence.


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#50 zoogs

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

You will find humility in the limits of our knowledge in science and empiricism. Asking equal deference for ideas supported only by belief and not by evidence is many things, but humility for human limits is not one of them. It asks us to suspend inquiry and reason even when it comes to physical claims about the world.
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