Triaging the QB room

[Cdog923]

43 minutes ago, floridacorn said:

 

What's interesting is that you can find early spring practice video of HH throwing in 2021 with Sean Callahan talking about how impressed the coaches were with his arm talent and he consistently has a higher/over the top release.  Similarly, there is video of HH in the 2021 spring game.  His release point was as it is now and he throws some passes in that game that look like they were thrown with his off hand.  I don't know if he has a mental block like Charles Barkley's golf swing or Verduzco taught him to throw like Dan Quessenberry on purpose, but it's odd.  

 

I mean, it didn't take much to impress the coaching staff in 2021, particularly his position coach. 

[Archy1221]

2 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

So we have to take what Sims averaged over all his starts and compare that to HH's worst game to make a point?

I think the larger point is the team is winning despite the QB play not because of it, so neither one should be married to the start and play the entire game spot.  
 

Sims offense averaged 11.5 points per game against P5 competition and HH offense is averaging 13.5 points per game against P5 competition.  Each QB has been crappy at best  as the sole starter so why not play both and have packages for both so other teams defense has to spend time preparing for both.  
 

 

[Undone]

One area where that big play hopefully helps us out in the next couple games is teams being concerned with him running the deep routes and having it loosen up the middle of the field.

[Mavric]

8 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I think the larger point is the team is winning despite the QB play not because of it, so neither one should be married to the start and play the entire game spot.  
 

Sims offense averaged 11.5 points per game against P5 competition and HH offense is averaging 13.5 points per game against P5 competition.  Each QB has been crappy at best  as the sole starter so why not play both and have packages for both so other teams defense has to spend time preparing for both.  

 

Sims played one of the worst defenses in FBS and HH played the best. That seems relevant on a very small sample size.

[Archy1221]

27 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Sims played one of the worst defenses in FBS and HH played the best. That seems relevant on a very small sample size.

Yes It is relevant.   And half the game was against its backups which is also relevant. However HH also played against the 93 ranked defense.  And another opponent (Northwestern gave up an average of 34 points per game against P5 opponents prior to NU).  I’m also not saying Sims is NFL caliber either.  
 

I don’t see how anyone can say either QB has played good and deserves to be the sole starter or say the wins are because of and not in spite of the offense.  If HH is struggling, put Sims in for a few series.  Neither WB has been shown to be good for an entire game, so let’s stop beating our heads against that wall.  

[ndobney]

12 hours ago, Toe said:

 

Over two starts, Sims averaged two INTs and one fumble per game. And as it happens, Haarberg had exactly two INTs and one fumble just yesterday.

That is called cherry picking stats and it’s intentionally misleading and dishonest. Haarberg doesn’t average 2 ints a game and a fumble and the fumble was recovered by us. Sims had several fumbled snaps and you are just looking at the stats from one game for Haarberg. One of his ints bounced off of a wr. And Sims has a multiple season for a track record of turning the ball over.

 

we don’t need a qb that’s going to consistently put our defense in bad situations as often as Sims does. Haarberg did put the defense in a bad situation yesterday a couple times but the defense was able to handle it. 
 

the defense was also able to handle it a couple of times when Sims put the defense in a bad situation in his first two games. The problem in our first couple of games Sims put our defense in bad situations 4 or 5 teams each game and it gassed the defense and was to much to them to overcome. I don’t want Sims anywhere near the field as our qb

[gobiggergoredder]

2 hours ago, deedsker said:

Not only did his mechanics improve, his footwork and posture throwing improved dramatically. He went from sub average/poor passer freshman year to his senior year, a potentially pass first QB. It was a dramatic change.

You can't really believe this.

[deedsker]

1 hour ago, gobiggergoredder said:

You can't really believe this.

 

 

My memory deceives me? I have a vivid memory of the Western Kentucky game in 2010 where he completely dips his back shoulder (almost to where his waist would be standing straight up and down) and awkwardly launches the ball at a 45 degree angle (What he seemed to do on any pass over 30 yards). I attended every one of his home games and remember thinking that he had a relatively normal-ish throwing motion in 2013 and his stats reflected it until the injury. Based on video evidence, it still looks pretty un-platformed in 2013.

 

I dunno. 

 

[gobiggergoredder]

40 minutes ago, deedsker said:

 

 

My memory deceives me? I have a vivid memory of the Western Kentucky game in 2010 where he completely dips his back shoulder (almost to where his waist would be standing straight up and down) and awkwardly launches the ball at a 45 degree angle (What he seemed to do on any pass over 30 yards). I attended every one of his home games and remember thinking that he had a relatively normal-ish throwing motion in 2013 and his stats reflected it until the injury.

 

That’s great.  I won’t say he’s not better, but dramatically?

 

From my standpoint he went from being a terrible thrower to an average/below average thrower.  And I’m leaning toward below average.

 

We get hung up on mechanics.  I’m going to slide over to AM for a moment.  He could rarely hit a WR out of break and was always behind on timing.  That has nothing to do with mechanics.

 

TM was a freak athlete.  Pretty poor at tossing it around.

[knapplc]

A really good thread (in Dave's quoted tweet) and some remarkable stats from Eric.

 

 

 

[Red Five]

:nods head:

[Cdog923]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:35 PM, Guy Chamberlin said:

I have no science or stats to back this up, but my gut feeling is that Logan Smothers would have been running this offense marginally better than either Haarberg or Sims. 

 

He's throwing for a 57% clip and has been benched multiple times at JSU this year. 

[Mavric]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

:nods head:

 

No they wouldn't.  People like to win.  That's why everyone was in love with McCaffrey after Martinez got benched.  McCaffrey moved the ball - we didn't even score - so people insisted he was better.  So he started the next week.  And he played worse than Martinez.  But we won.  So people loved him.  So he started again the next week.  And played poorly again.  But we lost so people were fine going back to Martinez.

[Cdog923]

34 minutes ago, gobiggergoredder said:

That’s great.  I won’t say he’s not better, but dramatically.

 

From my standpoint he want from being a terrible thrower to an average/below average thrower.  And I’m leaning toward below average.

 

We get hung up on mechanics.  I’m going to slide over to AM for a moment.  He could rarely hit a WR out of break and was always behind on timing.  That has nothing to do with mechanics.

 

TM was a freak athlete.  Pretty poor at tossing it around.

 

For reference sake, TM's completion percentages from freshman to senior year: 

 

2010: 59.2%

2011: 56.3%

2012: 62%

2013: 62.7% (only threw 110 passes due to injury)

[Red Five]

6 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

No they wouldn't.  People like to win.  That's why everyone was in love with McCaffrey after Martinez got benched.  McCaffrey moved the ball - we didn't even score - so people insisted he was better.  So he started the next week.  And he played worse than Martinez.  But we won.  So people loved him.  So he started again the next week.  And played poorly again.  But we lost so people were fine going back to Martinez.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

Frost got an extra 2 years because he was from Nebraska.  Anyone else would have been fired after 3 losing seasons in a row.