Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[husker_99]

lol that's not bias at all. None of them say what if Martin just kept walking home instead of approaching a truck parked on the road? You know mind your own business?

Of course, there's a seventh decision that could have been made that night --Trayvon Martin could have chosen to not defend himself.

It's important to note that the jury's verdict sends a message to anyone confronted or pursued by another man: If you engage the confrontation, even an act of self defense could be used as justification to shoot and kill you. What led up to the confrontation in the Martin-Zimmerman case was ruled irrelevant; only Zimmerman's state of mind at the time he shot him was to be taken into account by the jury. That doesn't leave someone being followed through their neighborhood many options other than fighting back.

and what exactly would trayvon be defending himself from? zimmerman had stopped chasing him.

if someone chases you and you feel threatened, you do not have to flee. you can defend yourself. remember?

well according to the transcript Martin got away from Zimmerman and in time he was no longer threatened. You can't go back and claim you were threatened when you removed yourself out of harm's way.

[Mavric]

lol that's not bias at all. None of them say what if Martin just kept walking home instead of approaching a truck parked on the road? You know mind your own business?

a person that is defending a want-to-be cop on a neighborhood watch is lamenting that someone did not just 'mind your own business'. why did gz not just mind his own business? oh, because he had a gun and did not have to. i am waiting for the nra to call for young, black men to arm themselves.

had zimmerman not been approached he probably would've have. He didn't know why Martin was approaching his truck. Martin could've been armed for all Zimmerman knew. oh by the way at the time Martin was high and if he knew where he lived why was he looking around at houses like he didn't know where he lived?

 

If he was so concerned about Martin being armed, how come he still had his gun concealed? I mean honestly, if you can't acknowledge the facts of the case then there is really nothing more to discuss. You can't have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to concede a simple, undisputed fact like Zimmerman followed Martin. Your ardent support of Zimmerman is nothing short of shocking and odd.

How do you know the gun was still concealed?

[walksalone]

lol that's not bias at all. None of them say what if Martin just kept walking home instead of approaching a truck parked on the road? You know mind your own business?

a person that is defending a want-to-be cop on a neighborhood watch is lamenting that someone did not just 'mind your own business'. why did gz not just mind his own business? oh, because he had a gun and did not have to. i am waiting for the nra to call for young, black men to arm themselves.

had zimmerman not been approached he probably would've have. He didn't know why Martin was approaching his truck. Martin could've been armed for all Zimmerman knew. oh by the way at the time Martin was high and if he knew where he lived why was he looking around at houses like he didn't know where he lived?

 

If he was so concerned about Martin being armed, how come he still had his gun concealed? I mean honestly, if you can't acknowledge the facts of the case then there is really nothing more to discuss. You can't have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to concede a simple, undisputed fact like Zimmerman followed Martin. Your ardent support of Zimmerman is nothing short of shocking and odd.

How do you know the gun was still concealed?

 

Even though 99.999999999999999999% of America wasn't there when it happened, they know all the exact details...

[Mavric]

 

If he was so concerned about Martin being armed, how come he still had his gun concealed? I mean honestly, if you can't acknowledge the facts of the case then there is really nothing more to discuss. You can't have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to concede a simple, undisputed fact like Zimmerman followed Martin. Your ardent support of Zimmerman is nothing short of shocking and odd.

 

Says the guy not particularly concerned with sticking to the facts of the case.

[Enhance]

There are very few facts in this case that everyone can agree upon. Most everything else is either conjecture or a completely one-sided tale because of poor witness accounts and poor audio quality. George Zimmernan was found NOT GUILTY, that doesn't mean he's innocent. It's time people get over the sentencing because it is final not debatable.

 

I've been reading a lot through this last page that Martin followed and/or approached Zimmerman. I've been looking through official accounts of the case and I can't find evidence to support this claim. Can someone point me in the right direction?

[Junior]

no i am a supporter of people defending their self. you are an ardent supporter of Martin even though everything suggests Martin was the aggressor. Just because you are a gun carrier doesn't mean you take out your gun at first glance. Zimmerman only took out his gun when he was getting his head bashed. This alone tells me his first intent was never to shoot Martin. I am one of the few that see all through the lies and bullsh#t that Martin supporters say. It seems you just support Martin cause he was a kid. Zimmerman did follow Martin and he stopped when the police dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow Martin. This is on every transcript and you can even hear on the audio version Zimmerman quit following Martin. Why can you not understand this?

 

Zimmerman's story suggests Martin was the aggressor, after Zimmerman started following him. Though I would suggest that Zimmerman has good reason to develop that story. If Martin were alive today to offer a differing testimony, would you inherently believe Zimmerman's side? Why would you inherently believe Zimmerman's side now?

 

What we know is that Martin was on his way home. I don't know who started the physical fight and neither do you. What we know is that Zimmerman started the situation. He had a gun, he followed an unarmed teenager who had the nerve to be walking home in the rain, and he ended up killing the unarmed teenager. Those are close to the only undisputed facts in the case.

[Junior]

 

Says the guy not particularly concerned with sticking to the facts of the case.

 

Exactly what fact do I have wrong? Are you still complaining about the use of the word "home"?

[Junior]

How do you know the gun was still concealed?

 

Mostly because Zimmerman said so.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/02/1220703/-The-Zimmerman-Draw

 

Statements from both George Zimmerman and his friend Mark Osterman, claim that during the struggle, Trayvon Martin saw the gun that Zimmerman was carrying concealed and attempted to grab it. This caused Zimmerman to wrestle control away, draw from his holster, and fire one round into the center of Martin's chest.

[carlfense]

Exactly what fact do I have wrong? Are you still complaining about the use of the word "home"?

It's a winning argument. Trayvon Martin didn't have a permanent residence in the neighborhood so he can't head "home." That means that any dude with a cop complex can follow him and kill him.

[Junior]

Exactly what fact do I have wrong? Are you still complaining about the use of the word "home"?

It's a winning argument. Trayvon Martin didn't have a permanent residence in the neighborhood so he can't head "home." That means that any dude with a cop complex can follow him and kill him.

 

I guess I should have specified that I was using the phrase "home" as a colloquialism for "the place where he should have been returning to". But I'm sure that would not have satisfied either.

[carlfense]

I guess I should have specified that I was using the phrase "home" as a colloquialism for "the place where he should have been returning to". But I'm sure that would not have satisfied either.

I'd use "home" in the same way. It's easier than saying "back to the place where I temporarily reside."

[husker_99]

no i am a supporter of people defending their self. you are an ardent supporter of Martin even though everything suggests Martin was the aggressor. Just because you are a gun carrier doesn't mean you take out your gun at first glance. Zimmerman only took out his gun when he was getting his head bashed. This alone tells me his first intent was never to shoot Martin. I am one of the few that see all through the lies and bullsh#t that Martin supporters say. It seems you just support Martin cause he was a kid. Zimmerman did follow Martin and he stopped when the police dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow Martin. This is on every transcript and you can even hear on the audio version Zimmerman quit following Martin. Why can you not understand this?

 

Zimmerman's story suggests Martin was the aggressor, after Zimmerman started following him. Though I would suggest that Zimmerman has good reason to develop that story. If Martin were alive today to offer a differing testimony, would you inherently believe Zimmerman's side? Why would you inherently believe Zimmerman's side now?

 

What we know is that Martin was on his way home. I don't know who started the physical fight and neither do you. What we know is that Zimmerman started the situation. He had a gun, he followed an unarmed teenager who had the nerve to be walking home in the rain, and he ended up killing the unarmed teenager. Those are close to the only undisputed facts in the case.

 

please quit saying this. This was after the fact he found out that he was not armed. Zimmerman had no way of knowing at the time if he was armed or not. Martin was putting his hand in his pockets and looking around at houses cause i guess he forgot where he lived. But you forget another fact, Martin approached the truck which started all this mess. You all who keep saying that if Zimmerman had minded his own business, well what if Martin minded his own business and just kept walking? He would be alive. Sometimes curiosity does kill the cat.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

no i am a supporter of people defending their self. you are an ardent supporter of Martin even though everything suggests Martin was the aggressor. Just because you are a gun carrier doesn't mean you take out your gun at first glance. Zimmerman only took out his gun when he was getting his head bashed. This alone tells me his first intent was never to shoot Martin. I am one of the few that see all through the lies and bullsh#t that Martin supporters say. It seems you just support Martin cause he was a kid. Zimmerman did follow Martin and he stopped when the police dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow Martin. This is on every transcript and you can even hear on the audio version Zimmerman quit following Martin. Why can you not understand this?

 

Zimmerman's story suggests Martin was the aggressor, after Zimmerman started following him. Though I would suggest that Zimmerman has good reason to develop that story. If Martin were alive today to offer a differing testimony, would you inherently believe Zimmerman's side? Why would you inherently believe Zimmerman's side now?

 

What we know is that Martin was on his way home. I don't know who started the physical fight and neither do you. What we know is that Zimmerman started the situation. He had a gun, he followed an unarmed teenager who had the nerve to be walking home in the rain, and he ended up killing the unarmed teenager. Those are close to the only undisputed facts in the case.

 

please quit saying this. This was after the fact he found out that he was not armed. Zimmerman had no way of knowing at the time if he was armed or not. Martin was putting his hand in his pockets and looking around at houses cause i guess he forgot where he lived. But you forget another fact, Martin approached the truck which started all this mess. You all who keep saying that if Zimmerman had minded his own business, well what if Martin minded his own business and just kept walking? He would be alive. Sometimes curiosity does kill the cat.

 

So you're saying that because Martin didn't mind his own business, his death was totally justifiable and unavoidable?

[StPaulHusker]

I will admit that I haven't followed this story much. And I am far too lazy to go back 12 pages to read what has been written. But I have to ask, what is the controversy? That it was a white guy with a gun shooting a black kid? Or just that the kid was shot at all?

 

This happens daily without much coverage. In fact a 17 yr old kid shot and killed another 17 yr old kid just last week in the Twin Cities. Barely made the local news.

[carlfense]

Martin approached the truck which started all this mess.

Eh?