God Hates Gays

[sd'sker]

Fair enough. If benny says his intent was merely to criticize and expose an idea, I would agree that it isn't technically "mocking."

 

But I guarantee you see what I meant.

sure. i was sincere in my question as well. i was not sure if i was missing something regarding the cartoon.

[Landlord]

Homosexuality is only natural to the first sense of the definition. In much the same way that natural orientations towards anger, aggression, depression, and other less than ideal or preferred tendencies, homosexuality is a result of the effects of the disease of sin on this world.

 

Can you explain why God would make it so a group of individuals are attracted to the same-sex but are supposed to only have relationships with the opposite sex? Your logic for the other orientations makes sense but I have trouble grappling with the notion that God would give someone the misfortune of being attracted to the wrong sex and expect them to ignore these attractions. It seems awfully cruel to me.

 

 

I can certainly try, though it's complex. There are a lot of theological undercurrents in a question like that, and I don't know if I'll address them all properly.

 

I think the first thing that needs to be pointed out is that God "making" people that way is a bit of a misnomer. More accurately, God allows people to become this way, but He does not actively craft people in that way. Now, while ultimately God is creator of all, sin and its effects weren't something He explicitly created, but something He gave room for the possibility for. The reason for this is free will - if we are to have free will, the only way for that to be possible is to interact with each other within a generally consistent plane, and evil things are an inevitable reality of that. The same "good" qualities that make using wood beneficial for burning for heat or building shelter out of are equally "bad" in that if I use the same wood to hit you in the face, it will cause damage.

 

Now, getting into homosexuality specifically, I need to preface by saying that I don't rightly know with certainty how God works through all of this - all I can do is guess and pray for wisdom. That being said, I do have a thought as to it. A distinction I think needs to be made is that the tendency or orientation towards homosexuality is not sinful - only the action (not physical action) of homosexual lust. This shows that homosexuality isn't an evil thing, it's just a perversion of a good thing (and I think most sin can be attributed in such a way).

 

I'm one who has always thought that it's entirely possible for me to love and cherish my male friends in just as deep of a way, albeit a different way, as I can love and cherish my wife. If you look throughout the Bible and in other ancient cultures that haven't been pushed so far into the false bravado of modern-way Western masculinity, you'll see this to be true. When the disciple that Jesus loved leaned on his bosom, it wasn't homoerotic - it was simply two guys loving each other as brothers. When you start looking through this perspective, it seems to me that homosexual urges and desires seem to be less alienated from the "majority" experiences, don't they? It seems a much less drastic change in orientation, and leads to the conclusion that the only sin here is wanting and cherishing something a little too much.

 

I know I've been guilty on several occasions in my life of having overly intimate and inappropriate relationships with women, both emotionally and physically, and I don't know that there's much of a distinction between this and what we're talking about. If it's the sin of homosexual actions/relations, well that is simply sexual lust that is being committed outside of marriage as God intended. If it's the sin of loving your same-sex partner deeply and passionately and wanting to spend the rest of your life with them, that is simply making that person ultimate in your life when God is meant and desperately needed to be ultimate.

 

I'm guilty of both of these types of sin in relations with women, and while it is not exactly the same, they're remarkably similar when judging the condition of my heart and my fundamental desires. Hopefully that sounds coherent enough to understand.

[JJ Husker]

I suppose you would have to address your question to someone who actually believes that God hates gays (or anyone else for that matter). I'm not that person. I do have a bit of advice however; if you want people to listen to and respect your views on things such as this, it might be prudent to not mock others beliefs or belittle them or tell them they've got it all wrong. It makes it real difficult to respect anothers opinions and beliefs if they are constantly mocking yours.

 

Sorry if you think you were being mocked. I'm just having a discussion. I figured if your beliefs were important to you...you'd be able to hold a conversation about them. I felt like my response to your question was justified.

People get so bent out of shape when it comes to someone else commenting about their religious beliefs. But when it's political or anything else....it's free game?

 

Just because you have a belief in something doesn't mean I can't say that I think you're wrong about it.

I'm not bent out of shape and you can say you think I am wrong about anything you wish. But, I have no intention of getting into a discussion about what God does or doesn't think or how we feel we know such things with someone who has a stated non-belief in God. I don't see what purpose it could possibly serve. There has to be acceptance of at least some minimal basis for the discussion to ensue. I'm not interested in you taking a hypothetical approach or to me assigning you a hypothetical postion in the discussion. It's ok, I just saved both of us a whole bunch of time because it was going nowhere to begin with. Sorry

[The Dude]

But, I have no intention of getting into a discussion about what God does or doesn't think or how we feel we know such things with someone who has a stated non-belief in God.

Racist.

[Lil' Red]

.

[Lil' Red]

Hopefully that sounds coherent enough to understand.

It is and I appreciate your willingness to discuss your beliefs.

 

This shows that homosexuality isn't an evil thing, it's just a perversion of a good thing (and I think most sin can be attributed in such a way).

I've never quite understood why it is perceived to be a perversion of a good thing. You're analogy about the wood is an example where it is entirely rational to consider hitting someone with a piece of wood to be a sin due to the damage it causes but I'm unable to comprehend why this should apply to homosexuality as I don't see the harm in it.

 

It seems a much less drastic change in orientation, and leads to the conclusion that the only sin here is wanting and cherishing something a little too much.

So is it your belief that homosexuality is merely going too far with your same-sex relationships and that this is something everyone is capable of doing?

 

 

If it's the sin of loving your same-sex partner deeply and passionately and wanting to spend the rest of your life with them, that is simply making that person ultimate in your life when God is meant and desperately needed to be ultimate.

How is loving your opposite-sex partner in the same manner not making that person ultimate in your life?

[Landlord]

I've never quite understood why it is perceived to be a perversion of a good thing. You're analogy about the wood is an example where it is entirely rational to consider hitting someone with a piece of wood to be a sin due to the damage it causes but I'm unable to comprehend why this should apply to homosexuality as I don't see the harm in it.

 

 

That is valid - the harm in homosexuality isn't readily apparent in the same way, for sure. The harm in it is that we were designed with a certain image in mind, and it's a deviation from that image. While homosexuals might live great lives, love their partners, contribute to society and what have you, my basis of understanding what is good, beneficial, life-bringing and beneficial comes from the Bible before it ever comes from my own eyeball test or taking people's word for it. God designed marriage in a specific way between man and woman, and that is the right way for no other reason than it is the way God intended - one might think that it's not fair and they want to be free from that design, but you are straying away from what you were made to be, and thus, what will bring you joy and life and peace and rest and etc.

 

So is it your belief that homosexuality is merely going too far with your same-sex relationships and that this is something everyone is capable of doing?

 

 

That is absolutely my belief.

 

How is loving your opposite-sex partner in the same manner not making that person ultimate in your life?

 

 

It is making that person ultimate in your life, it's no different whether that person is the other sex or not.

[bennychico11]

I'm not bent out of shape and you can say you think I am wrong about anything you wish.

Well, in the most recent quote you said it wasn't prudent to tell someone they were wrong. That's what I was responding to.

 

But, I have no intention of getting into a discussion about what God does or doesn't think

 

except my first comment on your statement from the first page had to do with you saying:

"'God hates......' cannot be attributed to God but rather to some misguided human who thinks they understand the mind of God but they really have no clue."

 

I purely meant how can those who say "god hates" not understand the true mind of god, when obviously you do? And if you agree that you don't understand the mind of god, how can you say those who say "god hates"...don't understand the mind of god?!

 

or how we feel we know such things with someone who has a stated non-belief in God. I don't see what purpose it could possibly serve. There has to be acceptance of at least some minimal basis for the discussion to ensue. I'm not interested in you taking a hypothetical approach or to me assigning you a hypothetical postion in the discussion.

 

I guess I just assumed we were taking your hypothetical position that you knew the mind of god. And likely, you knew I would disagree with you. I think that's the crux of my position. I may disagree with you on the belief of a god. And you the opposite. That's fine. But then you go one step further saying others don't know the mind of god but you've been taught the mind of god. So I have to question how you know the god that many know as unknowable....is somehow knowable when it comes to many important moral issues!

 

It's ok, I just saved both of us a whole bunch of time because it was going nowhere to begin with. Sorry

 

No worries. Most likely we'll end nowhere too, but maybe someone on the fence might jump in and join us in the conversation

[bennychico11]

It is making that person ultimate in your life, it's no different whether that person is the other sex or not.

 

If I recall correctly, you are Catholic? Are you taking Paul's position on marriage then?

 

"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)

 

"Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control. I say this by way of concession, not of command. wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another." (1 Corinthians 7:1-7)

[bennychico11]

You posted a cartoon clearly mocking Jesus.

 

That's your first amendment right. But don't try to make it out to be that you weren't being condescending - the cartoon post clearly shows otherwise.

 

 

As said earlier, yes, it was satire. I saw this thread....and remembered I recently saw a comic that related. Thought it was funny. Combined the two

[Landlord]

It is making that person ultimate in your life, it's no different whether that person is the other sex or not.

 

If I recall correctly, you are Catholic? Are you taking Paul's position on marriage then?

 

"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)

 

"Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control. I say this by way of concession, not of command. wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another." (1 Corinthians 7:1-7)

 

 

I'm about as far from Catholic as it gets - I don't like throwing labels on myself other than a follower of Christ, but my theology is pretty reformed. But Catholic or not, Paul's letters are divinely inspired as God's word, and we should treat them as such, while being careful to take into account a lot of things such as context, meaning to original readers, application to present day, and etc.

 

That said I'm not exactly sure if you're trying to make a point, and if so what it is.

[JJ Husker]

But, I have no intention of getting into a discussion about what God does or doesn't think or how we feel we know such things with someone who has a stated non-belief in God.

Racist.

 

Well sort of but not exactly. Maybe creedist or religist but, I would prefer just a simple d******d or a-hole if ya don't mind :-)

[HuskerShark]

Well I've got a few things to........oh nevermind.

 

Actually, I do have one thing to say about the title. IMO anything that follows "God hates......" cannot be attributed to God but rather to some misguided human who thinks they understand the mind of God but they really have no clue. I dunno, I was always taught that God doesn't hate anybody and that even the most vile among us almost always has the opportunity to receive forgiveness. But that's me, opinions may differ.

 

This.

but then what right do people have to say what god loves?

 

Romans 8:37-39

 

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

John 13:34-35

 

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

1 John 4:9-12

By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has beheld God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

 

[Hammerhead]

"We're all gay, buddy. It's just to what degree are you gay." And he goes, "That's bullsh*t, man. I ain't gay at all." And I go "Yeah, you are. And I can prove it." He goes "Fine. Prove it." I go, "All right. Do you like porn?" He says "Yeah, I love porn. You know that." I said, "Oh, and do you only watch scenes with two women?" And he goes, "No, I'll watch a man and a woman makin' love." And I say "Oh, and do you like the guy to have a flabby, half-flaccid penis?" And he goes "No, I like big, hard, throbbing c*ck..."

-Ron White

 

Seriously? I ran out of likes for the day before I read this post? This is the funniest thing I've read in forever.

 

Anyway, as for the whole "God hates gays" thing... I don't believe God hates gays. That'd require that I believe that he exists.

[Junior]

Anyway, as for the whole "God hates gays" thing... I don't believe God hates gays. That'd require that I believe that he exists.

 

This.