God Hates Gays

[Landlord]

In order to accept the rest of what you said, I have to accept the bold part. Which, given what we know about how we actually came to be, just seems really silly.

 

What does "how" something happened do to answer the question of "why" it happened?

 

 

Exactly the reason I won't go to church.................no offense to Landlord, but if god is a vengeful, hateful, and punishing god I don't want anything to do with it.

 

Here's the thing - if God does exist, which of these statements is true?

 

A. God is subject to and under the rule of rational thought.

B. Rationalism is subject to and under the rule of God.

 

What you're doing in making statements like this is presupposing that your or our incredibly limited, incredibly imperfect and incredibly inconsistent view of what is right and wrong is the barometer by which we're to judge the Creator's merits. Why does God have to answer to you for the supposed atrocities He has committed or the supposed vengeful nature of His character according to YOUR standard? Imagine if children got to build their parents with qualities they decided were ideal in a parent, what a mess that would be!

 

 

 

My god is a loving individual that will love me and other people for who they are. Do we sin.............yes, we do, but only god can judge me when the time comes and no one else's opinion matters. People that live their lives strictly by the bible aren't being realistic and I guarantee you they've strayed against the bible in one way or another.

 

It's funny, in the same argument that you call people living by the Bible unrealistic, you lay out Biblical truths about God and people

 

Yes we do sin (Romans 3:23),

yes only God can judge us (John 8:7, Luke 6:37),

yes other people's opinions, although I wouldn't use that word, don't matter (1 Corinthians 4:3-5)

and yes, even Christians have strayed against the Bible (Matthew 18:15, 1 John 1:7-9, Colossians 3:5-6)

 

But sure, living by the Bible isn't realistic. So the logical question I have is which God is your God, BRI? It sounds as if you've made Him up to fit your criteria for how He should be. Now tell me what's more unrealistic:

 

A. Deciding for myself what my God is like, without any other corroborating reports.

B. Taking seriously and into account 2,000 years of church history, and 4,000 more before that, of reports, testimonies, historical accounts and changed lives all centered around the God outlined in Scripture.

My experience in the church is limited................I'm a spiritual man, not a religious man, I've never read the bible from cover to cover and probably won't for quite some time, but you never know. There is one individual I work with and his particuliar religion makes me feel like he fears god and has to do things a certain way, like donating a certain portion of his salary to the church, and if he doesn't do these things he won't be allowed admittance into heaven when he leaves this earth. I don't want to be scared to die, whether someone else believes in god or not I don't care..............I believe he/she/it exists and that's my personal feeling on the matter. When my time comes I want to find peace in knowing that I will be judged by my god and forgiving for the sins I've commited. I try to live a good life, but like anyone else I sin on some level. I just don't think it's necessary to give up part of my salary to the church as a way to buy my way into heaven. I don't buy that crap and never will, I think it's a way for the church to get money and understand it talks about it in the bible..........don't think it's necessary. I also refuse to be scared of god because of whatever reason. I deal with death every single day...............when I put my uniform on I look in the mirror, prepare myself for battle, and prepare myself to meet my creator and the chance that I may never see my family on this earth again. Not saying I deserve a pat on the back for that, I'm just telling you that I prepare for that daily so I obviously believe in my devine creator.

 

 

Have you actually asked or talked with him about his motivation behind tithing towards the church BRI? If it is, as you say, motivated by fear or trying to have an eternal insurance policy, that is absolutely contrary to what the Bible teaches and that guy is just as misguided as anyone else. I'd encourage you to ask him about it, and I'd hope he's not a hyper religious hypocrite.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

The problem with this individual is he lives by the bible when he wants to. He has made A LOT of mistakes in life and I know we all do, but these were pretty large mistakes and he seems to be hit-and-miss on whether he wants to live by the bible or not. You can't go back-and-forth, you have to choose one or the other. I'm not ready to make that type of commitment right now and may not be able to ever, have no idea. He donates to the church because he has to in his mind.

[The Dude]

What does "how" something happened do to answer the question of "why" it happened?

 

I believe this explains everything that ever was.

[Michiganball]

So here is a God that created the universe. Billions of light years in size, with billions of galaxies with hundreds of millions of stars in each being orbited by planets. But he focuses on some male or female creature having a crush on another creature on some planet in the armpit of the universe. Bit absurd, no?

[Lil' Red]

I guess I can't offer much of substance here - some theologians might be able to, but I don't know that there's really a proper answer (to human intellect) for "why" God does things the way He does, other than for His glory.

I'm just perplexed as to why God would grant the ability to use logic while at the same time construct laws that contradict reason. Why would God expect us to blindly follow an interpretation of the bible when it blatantly contradicts the reasoning capabilities that he gave us?

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear here - when I say I believe that anyone is capable of it, I don't mean in the sense that right now at whatever age you're at and after having lived through your life that you could easily fall into the desire to have a homosexual relationship or sexual relations with someone. Moreso I meant that it can hypothetically happen to anyone given the right genetic disposition and cultural experiences.

So when someone is given the right genetic disposition and environment to have homosexual attractions do they still have heterosexual attractions? If not, how can they be expected to have a fulfilling relationship with an opposite-sex partner?

[Landlord]

I'm just perplexed as to why God would grant the ability to use logic while at the same time construct laws that contradict reason. Why would God expect us to blindly follow an interpretation of the bible when it blatantly contradicts the reasoning capabilities that he gave us?

 

A valid criticism. However, the inevitable conclusion is deciding whether or not you believe that our perception of the idea of logic should be defining God or the other way around. God's laws and actions don't contradict real, absolute, intrinsic logic - they only contradict human ideas of what logic is, and even then only occasionally.

 

 

So when someone is given the right genetic disposition and environment to have homosexual attractions do they still have heterosexual attractions? If not, how can they be expected to have a fulfilling relationship with an opposite-sex partner?

 

 

This is tough. I've known and listened to a number of people who have lived homosexual lifestyles for x amount of years in their lives before coming to put their faith in Jesus and have ended up having some seemingly great marriages, kids, etc. Now I know they've been accused of just convincing themselves of a false truth, but the two things I would say seem pretty apparent to me are that a. While attractions can still linger, actions can be controlled and denied and b. marriage isn't about attraction, or in other words, isn't about a give-take, but is about giving selflessly.

[Junior]

This is tough. I've known and listened to a number of people who have lived homosexual lifestyles for x amount of years in their lives before coming to put their faith in Jesus and have ended up having some seemingly great marriages, kids, etc. Now I know they've been accused of just convincing themselves of a false truth, but the two things I would say seem pretty apparent to me are that a. While attractions can still linger, actions can be controlled and denied and b. marriage isn't about attraction, or in other words, isn't about a give-take, but is about giving selflessly.

 

That's a very sad and depressing view of marriage. I am attracted to my wife and certainly couldn't imagine resigning myself to a life with someone I'm not physically attracted to.

[Junior]

Seth Rogen: "Claiming that someone else's marriage is against your religion is like being angry at someone for eating a donut because you're on a diet."

[Landlord]

This is tough. I've known and listened to a number of people who have lived homosexual lifestyles for x amount of years in their lives before coming to put their faith in Jesus and have ended up having some seemingly great marriages, kids, etc. Now I know they've been accused of just convincing themselves of a false truth, but the two things I would say seem pretty apparent to me are that a. While attractions can still linger, actions can be controlled and denied and b. marriage isn't about attraction, or in other words, isn't about a give-take, but is about giving selflessly.

 

That's a very sad and depressing view of marriage. I am attracted to my wife and certainly couldn't imagine resigning myself to a life with someone I'm not physically attracted to.

 

 

So you're saying you couldn't love your wife for the rest of your life if you weren't attracted to her. Seems pretty happy and great to me, let me know how she feels about that.

[The Dude]

[Lil' Red]

A valid criticism. However, the inevitable conclusion is deciding whether or not you believe that our perception of the idea of logic should be defining God or the other way around. God's laws and actions don't contradict real, absolute, intrinsic logic - they only contradict human ideas of what logic is, and even then only occasionally.

Homosexuality is no longer being viewed as a sin by an increasing number of people. Soon Christians will have to deviate from what their religion is teaching if they want to maintain their beliefs that homosexuality is a sin. Why would God allow such a blatant misinterpretation of his will by his devote followers?

 

This is tough. I've known and listened to a number of people who have lived homosexual lifestyles for x amount of years in their lives before coming to put their faith in Jesus and have ended up having some seemingly great marriages, kids, etc. Now I know they've been accused of just convincing themselves of a false truth, but the two things I would say seem pretty apparent to me are that a. While attractions can still linger, actions can be controlled and denied and b. marriage isn't about attraction, or in other words, isn't about a give-take, but is about giving selflessly.

I don't know of many marriages where no attraction exists between the two partners. I'd imagine it would be difficult to sustain a relationship without any attraction at a physical and emotional level. If the Bible stated that heterosexual relationships were sinful could you marry someone of the same-sex?

[Landlord]

A valid criticism. However, the inevitable conclusion is deciding whether or not you believe that our perception of the idea of logic should be defining God or the other way around. God's laws and actions don't contradict real, absolute, intrinsic logic - they only contradict human ideas of what logic is, and even then only occasionally.

Homosexuality is no longer being viewed as a sin by an increasing number of people. Soon Christians will have to deviate from what their religion is teaching if they want to maintain their beliefs that homosexuality is a sin. Why would God allow such a blatant misinterpretation of his will by his devote followers?

 

This is tough. I've known and listened to a number of people who have lived homosexual lifestyles for x amount of years in their lives before coming to put their faith in Jesus and have ended up having some seemingly great marriages, kids, etc. Now I know they've been accused of just convincing themselves of a false truth, but the two things I would say seem pretty apparent to me are that a. While attractions can still linger, actions can be controlled and denied and b. marriage isn't about attraction, or in other words, isn't about a give-take, but is about giving selflessly.

I don't know of many marriages where no attraction exists between the two partners. I'd imagine it would be difficult to sustain a relationship without any attraction at a physical and emotional level. If the Bible stated that heterosexual relationships were sinful could you marry someone of the same-sex?

 

 

I'd like to think I could, but I really have no idea.

 

Attraction is most definitely important in a marriage; I'm not debating that. However, it's not foundational, or at least shouldn't be. You can choose to love and devote yourself to anybody. A perfect example of this in history is Martin Luther and his wife. Their marriage is probably the most significant marriage in human history outside of the Bible, because it totally challenged a lot of the ideas of the time and changed the way we look at things, and it's a beautiful story of two people committing to each other, even though they didn't necessarily like each other to start. Read this article I've linked below for a little backstory on this, it's really an amazing story:

 

http://pastormark.tv/2012/01/24/scandal-ex-nun-marries-former-priest

 

Much to everyone’s surprise, eight years after leaving the priesthood, the ex-monk Martin married the ex-nun Katherine in the backwoods of rural Germany on June 13, 1525. One of the reasons Martin gave for his marriage was to spite the devil, which is perhaps the least romantic statement ever uttered. Their marriage was a public scandal and arguably the most significant marriage outside the Bible in the history of the world. They set in motion a model for Christian faith and maturity through marriage, sex, and children, rather than through singleness and celibacy.

What is perhaps most curious is that their marriage did not start with love or attraction, but rather with a commitment to the principles of the Bible and service to God. William Henry Lazareth in his biography on Luther wrote, “Martin and Katie did not get along very well because of their clashing temperaments and personalities.”

[Ratt Mhule]

 

Im crying! :laughpound

[Michiganball]

 

Im crying! :laughpound

 

Bravo! Oscar winning performance.

 

[Nebula]

Scary.