Do you believe in God? A deity, or higher power?

[tschu]

Just because the wealth isn't liquid doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

Also, the Catholic Church in America alone nets more money than Apple, more money than GM. That's just income, not wealth, and is just in America, not worldwide. $170 billion dollars/year. Extrapolate that around the globe, then start to add up all of the possessions, real estate, resources, ...I can't even find any real numbers on it, but it has to be an impossibly huge amount.

[walksalone]

I don't believe in a high power, I believe in myself. I know the difference from right or wrong and the consequences that go along with my decisions.

[WoodyHayes1951]

Just because the wealth isn't liquid doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

Also, the Catholic Church in America alone nets more money than Apple, more money than GM. That's just income, not wealth, and is just in America, not worldwide. $170 billion dollars/year. Extrapolate that around the globe, then start to add up all of the possessions, real estate, resources, ...I can't even find any real numbers on it, but it has to be an impossibly huge amount.

 

 

You forgot to mention that that figure comes with it being the single Largest Charitable Organization in the U.S. and its main group distributed nearly 5 billion in aide to the poor in 2010

 

Spending was at 170 Billion indeed. It went to some pretty decent causes, healthcare, education, Charities and over 1 million employees. "The Economist estimates that 57% of the church's U.S. spending went to Catholic health care networks, with an additional 28% to colleges, 6% to day-to-day operations at local parishes and dioceses, and 2.7% to national charities"

 

As far a property values, yes, downtown property in cities like Los Angeles and Chicago and Midtown in Manhattan are very high. It adds up in terms of amount. also, the water & gas bills in these locations are no picnic either.

[QMany]

I don't believe in a high power, I believe in myself. I know the difference from right or wrong and the consequences that go along with my decisions.

That is pretty much my take on the issue, too.

[Landlord]

Why do we believe that Jesus is the supernatural son of God, but nothing actually caught on about him for many years after his death? Why was his birthday celebration changed by the church just for the sake of convenience?

 

 

 

I believe Jesus was a real person in history that probably had some very good things to teach people and pissed off the wrong person, but then again, why is there no definitive historical data on him?

 

 

I don't know the entirety of your skepticism towards religion and the nuances of what it's all based on, but at the risk of zooming in a little too far, these three things (just as examples I am sure) are pretty easily answered.

 

The first is false. The disciples believed Jesus was the Christ, and crowds of thousands saw Him resurrected (or saw something that made them join the team) and the church sprouted up pretty much immediately after he died.

 

Using Christmas to celebrate his birth was a no-brainer. Christians were persecuted at the time, and instead of drawing attention to themselves by celebrating a day that nobody else celebrated, they adopted the existing pagan celebrations but then used them for their own motivations in private.

 

And the funny thing about historical accounts of Jesus is that most people who wrote them and were originally 'secular', such as Luke who wrote Luke & Acts, ended up converting to Christianity

[TAKODA]

 

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

 

LOL, JJ, that is really weird because that very sentence is the one part I will not say in church either.

 

I asked the father about this and he stated it was not based on one church but the belief that the teachings that came from the Roman Catholic background. I reviewed data on this and although his comments were not in depth, they were not 100% correct, thus to this day, I say the creed without saying that portion.

 

Note that the words catholic and apostolic are not capitalized. This means that it's not about the Catholic (denomination) but rather the true definitions of the words:

 

 

catholic:

universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.

 

apostolic:

of or characteristic of an apostle.

 

This is what I was taught as it was a question brought up in confirmation class.

 

 

Yes, got it. Thanks +1 for pointing it out, I wasn't very clear.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I think there is a higher power, what that is, obviously I'll find out someday. I don't fear "god" and I don't worry about "his wrath on earth when he comes back!" My god is a loving god, a forgiving god and an understanding god. I don't need to go to church every Sunday to believe that although part of me feels like I should. I don't live my life by the bible and wrap my beliefs around the bible. If I did that, I couldn't be around some of my family members, brother and sister, because of things the bible says or is implied by the bible. Both my boys were baptized in Lutheran Church when they were babies. At one point I was very angry with "god" and refused to allow myself to even think about him other than in anger due to how long it took for us to get our boys here. That anger may have been misplaced, but regardless it was there and I directed it towards him. It took me a long time to get over that and still affects me to this day. (We had to use invetro to get our boys here)

 

So all-in-all, yes I believe in a higher power, what that is? I have no idea..............

[Count 'Bility]

I believe. I see the things that go on in this world. Diseased children. The hunger. Wars. Natural disasters. Just basic desimation of humanity. It's not simple enough for me to just "meh, sh#t happens". I have faith that there is some sort of higher power at work. I see a lot of things happen in this world both good and bad that are just unexplainable to me. Why do some many evil things happen to so many good people if god loves us you ask? I dont know. That's the unexplainable part. But I just like to put my faith in something. It's gives me reason to believe. That there is a plan. There is a reason. I think that everthing that happens contains some sort of lesson. And if ready properly, would benefit in the long run.

[icedavis]

 

 

The Nicene Creed is actually one of the main things that turned me off about being Catholic. One day I just realized, what am I even saying? Not necessarily the fact that I didn't believe it when you actually break it down,

I am surprised to hear this from you Po. If you don't mind answering, what content in the creed do you not believe? That doesn't just shoot down Catholicism but also most of Christianity.

 

 

No, what I am saying is, it wasn't the fact that I didn't believe the words that I spoke from the creed when I attended church. It was just like you said in your last post, the catholic church is a lot of rituals and traditions and it gets to the point where people just say it because everyone else does every Sunday and don't really mean it. My parents/siblings even admitted to this when I asked them if they even comprehend what they are saying.

 

 

I honestly felt the exact same way about my catholic upbringing and the church I attended. I highly respect the pomp and circumstance of any religion but to me that pomp and circumstance doesn't matter if the people don't [appear to and actually] believe what they are saying or in what is going on. It really looked to me like everyone was just going through the motions and like you said, just saying the creeds because either they had to or because everyone else was. I understand that appearance really doesn't matter because the foundation is that they actually believe. but when everyone around you looks disinterested in anything and not just specifically church, how interested are you likely to become in that same thing? That hard to overcome.

 

I went through some rough times in college and then some rough times personally a few years ago with anxiety/depression, that i still battle, and during that time i was really heavily questioning everything including religion. My boss brought me to the christian church I still attend and I couldn't be happier. People genuinely appear and actually are interested. They are active participants, not passive or going through the motions in any sense. It's far easier to relate, learn and understand in that atmosphere. There is a great sense of conviction (in a good way) that really forces me to examine myself and be accountable for my actions.

 

If I were to step out of that religious box and look at it from the outside I can honestly say that in the end if there were no such thing as God, I can say that I am a better person because of what christianity requires out of me by trying to live a life of Christ, being convicted and accountable for my actions. And I feel like in my 30 years on this planet that many of the people around me (which is obviously a small sample when comparing to the world population) only preach the Golden Rule but don't actually adhere to it all the way down to the accountability aspects of it. I still am guilty of getting carried away but I can see a noticeable difference in myself for the better. it's kinda a backhanded way of looking at my commitment to Christ but I do step out of my box often and reflect on myself like that.

 

Now I am not trying to convert anyone or say that you can't become a better person without religion. It's just my experience and I hope that whatever your motivations (religious or not) you all can not only strive to be better people but also truly become better people.

 

As a fun sidenote: everytime I see the title of this thread, my first thought is always this...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbuk4XH8SS8

[sd'sker]

frankly, i think jimmy buffett said it best:

Religion, religion.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

Where's the church, who took the steeple
Religion's in the hands of some crazy ass people
Television preachers with bad hair and dimples
The God's honest truth is it's not that simple

It's the Buddhist in you, it's the pagan in me
It's the Muslim in him, she's Catholic ain't she?
It's that born again look, it's the wasp and the Jew
Tell me what's goin on, I ain't got a clue

[TAKODA]

I have no hate or ill feelings against those who elect not to believe or feel they do not have enough evidence to support that "GOD" does exist! I don't look at them any differently than I do someone who is sitting next to me at church. I still treat them as I would want to be treated.

 

Bottom line whether you are a believer or not, the way you treat people, the lifestyle you live and how you go about life comes from within (with or without God). If religion helped you develop your ethics, then great!

 

I am happy to say that most of the HB members I have come to know via their postings here appear to be a pretty decent group of people.

[knapplc]

I'd like to try and give you some food for thought on this topic...I think it's explainable.

 

 

I still don't understand how there are so many protestant religions out there that find it ok to blame God for all the bad things out there...and I suppose that since they did it in the book of Job (read: all of Job's relatives....a few examples:

• Your 3 year old died? Oh, God must have needed a little angel in heaven right?
• God hates A...so he directed B onto A's place of residence to teach them a lesson. (insert your own values for A and B)
• I hate God because he took my _insert your relative here_ away from me.
• I'm angry with God because
• Natural Disasters? God had nothing to do with these things...he doesn't direct them onto people
• Disease? Famine? etc? God has decided to kill innocent people? That doesn't fit 'God is love'

Why would God kill innocent 3 year olds like the hypothetical example in the first bullet point? He doesn't. Disease, mutation of cells/DNA, sickness, etc...those are products of Adam rejecting perfection back in Genesis. When he did that, death was the thing he received...and just like that, we all have that born in us. God doesn't pluck us out of the masses or take us. Our bodies are imperfect and weak and therefore susceptible to disease and mutations...they're fragile during accidents, falls, etc. Thanks to the serpent for this one...he's the root cause of our imperfect bodies.

 

Do those bad things still happen to good people? Sure, but to think God is hanging out dropping little bombs of punishment and pain on people is just not the way of Christian belief....and here's where I think the proof is:

 

 

Read Luke 4.

 

Now, I'd like to call your attention to a few verses:

 

5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’

 

What I'd like to call your attention to in those verses is that Jesus doesn't refute that Satan has power over all the kingdoms of the world TO GIVE TO HIM. That's a telling thing to think about. Satan's influence on the world was so great even then, that Jesus didn't refute that he had all that power he was willing to bestow upon him...no refuting it at all.

 

So, who is the one that influences this world more than anyone/anything out there? Who has led mankind into destroying the earth causing increased occurances of national disasters? Who has caused increased violence around the world and unstable governments? Who has caused persecution of ethnic groups and religions around the world? Why do people die? Why is there disease? Satan...he always has been the cause and probably always will be until the day of his final judgement and destruction.

 

The above is how I choose to believe and it is how I feel the Bible shows this to be true.

 

 

 

These are all really swell explanations, except that God is 1) Omnipotent, meaning absolutely nothing is outside His ability, and 2) God is all-loving, meaning he loves us absolutely.

 

But if he does, why are we here? Why aren't we in heaven right now? Some bizarre "free will" explanation? That's a very human-sounding excuse for a reality that we should NOT be in.

 

It's really simple. If God loves us absolutely, and he's omnipotent, all this nonsense about sin shouldn't be. At all. We should just be in heaven with him now, living forever in blessed perfection.

[TAKODA]

 

I believe. I see the things that go on in this world. Diseased children. The hunger. Wars. Natural disasters. Just basic desimation of humanity. It's not simple enough for me to just "meh, sh#t happens". I have faith that there is some sort of higher power at work. I see a lot of things happen in this world both good and bad that are just unexplainable to me. Why do some many evil things happen to so many good people if god loves us you ask? I dont know. That's the unexplainable part. But I just like to put my faith in something. It's gives me reason to believe. That there is a plan. There is a reason. I think that everthing that happens contains some sort of lesson. And if ready properly, would benefit in the long run.

 

I'd like to try and give you some food for thought on this topic...I think it's explainable.

 

 

I still don't understand how there are so many protestant religions out there that find it ok to blame God for all the bad things out there...and I suppose that since they did it in the book of Job (read: all of Job's relatives....a few examples:

 

• Your 3 year old died? Oh, God must have needed a little angel in heaven right?
• God hates A...so he directed B onto A's place of residence to teach them a lesson. (insert your own values for A and B)
• I hate God because he took my _insert your relative here_ away from me.
• I'm angry with God because
• Natural Disasters? God had nothing to do with these things...he doesn't direct them onto people
• Disease? Famine? etc? God has decided to kill innocent people? That doesn't fit 'God is love'

Why would God kill innocent 3 year olds like the hypothetical example in the first bullet point? He doesn't. Disease, mutation of cells/DNA, sickness, etc...those are products of Adam rejecting perfection back in Genesis. When he did that, death was the thing he received...and just like that, we all have that born in us. God doesn't pluck us out of the masses or take us. Our bodies are imperfect and weak and therefore susceptible to disease and mutations...they're fragile during accidents, falls, etc. Thanks to the serpent for this one...he's the root cause of our imperfect bodies.

 

Do those bad things still happen to good people? Sure, but to think God is hanging out dropping little bombs of punishment and pain on people is just not the way of Christian belief....and here's where I think the proof is:

 

 

Read Luke 4.

 

Now, I'd like to call your attention to a few verses:

 

5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’

 

 

What I'd like to call your attention to in those verses is that Jesus doesn't refute that Satan has power over all the kingdoms of the world TO GIVE TO HIM. That's a telling thing to think about. Satan's influence on the world was so great even then, that Jesus didn't refute that he had all that power he was willing to bestow upon him...no refuting it at all.

 

So, who is the one that influences this world more than anyone/anything out there? Who has led mankind into destroying the earth causing increased occurances of national disasters? Who has caused increased violence around the world and unstable governments? Who has caused persecution of ethnic groups and religions around the world? Why do people die? Why is there disease? Satan...he always has been the cause and probably always will be until the day of his final judgement and destruction.

 

The above is how I choose to believe and it is how I feel the Bible shows this to be true.

 

 

Nice! +1

[Landlord]

 

These are all really swell explanations, except that God is 1) Omnipotent, meaning absolutely nothing is outside His ability, and 2) God is all-loving, meaning he loves us absolutely.

 

 

 

If that is the extent of what omnipotence entails, if it's that simple, then can God make a circle triangle?

[knapplc]

 

These are all really swell explanations, except that God is 1) Omnipotent, meaning absolutely nothing is outside His ability, and 2) God is all-loving, meaning he loves us absolutely.

 

If that is the extent of what omnipotence entails, if it's that simple, then can God make a circle triangle?

 

 

These are all really swell explanations, except that God is 1) Omnipotent, meaning absolutely nothing is outside His ability, and 2) God is all-loving, meaning he loves us absolutely.

 

If that is the extent of what omnipotence entails, if it's that simple, then can God make a circle triangle?

 

This seems like an attempt to evade or negate the question rather than any kind of substantive answer.

 

The basic question is, Does God have the power to eliminate "sin" and place every human ever in existence in heaven to live with Him eternally RIGHT NOW?