The Repub Debate

[knapplc]

Now Trump says he isn't going to debate Sanders.

 

[Lil' Red]

This is the press release

 

Based on the fact that the Democratic nominating process is totally rigged and Crooked Hillary Clinton and Deborah Wasserman Schultz will not allow Bernie Sanders to win, and now that I am the presumptive Republican nominee, it seems inappropriate that I would debate the second place finisher. Likewise, the networks want to make a killing on these events and are not proving to be too generous to charitable causes, in this case, women’s health issues. Therefore, as much as I want to debate Bernie Sanders - and it would be an easy payday - I will wait to debate the first place finisher in the Democratic Party, probably Crooked Hillary Clinton, or whoever it may be.

Link

[HuskerShark]

So... Do people have a problem with it just because it's Trump?

[funhusker]

So... Do people have a problem with it just because it's Trump?

I don't think anyone has a problem with Trump not debating Sanders. No one ever expected them to, and most political pundits thought it was a ridiculous idea to begin with. People only started talking about it when TRUMP opened his mouth and threw out some words that happened to fall in a sequence similar to "I'd love to debate Bernie for charity". Bernie said, "hey, sounds great! Let's do it!" Then Trump cowered back hopefully finally realizing that people might actually try to hold him accountable for the words that fall out of his head.

[Moiraine]

So... Do people have a problem with it just because it's Trump?

Ya that's it. He's a victim in all of this!

[teachercd]

 

So... Do people have a problem with it just because it's Trump?

I don't think anyone has a problem with Trump not debating Sanders. No one ever expected them to, and most political pundits thought it was a ridiculous idea to begin with. People only started talking about it when TRUMP opened his mouth and threw out some words that happened to fall in a sequence similar to "I'd love to debate Bernie for charity". Bernie said, "hey, sounds great! Let's do it!" Then Trump cowered back hopefully finally realizing that people might actually try to hold him accountable for the words that fall out of his head.

 

Would have been nice just for the money they would have raised but it probably would have just turned into a bash fest on Cliton.

 

Kind of like LeBron James and his special a few years back. It raised a lot for a charity but it was kind of lame.

[HuskerShark]

Since that's no longer happening, I'd be happy to volunteer to partner with Sanders for an hour-long bash-Hillary special for charity.

[zoogs]

Scathing editorial on Rubio he's been responding to on Twitter. How far he's fallen. It's not a total surprise either, having seen him do his about face on immigration a few years ago.

[HuskerNation1]

Scathing editorial on Rubio he's been responding to on Twitter. How far he's fallen. It's not a total surprise either, having seen him do his about face on immigration a few years ago.

Its no surprise to see a "scathing editorial" about every politician, and its also no surprise to see you attempting to bash Rubio. I think hes like many conservatives that dont love Trump, but who when Hillary is thr opposition, its easy to get in board the Trump train.

[zoogs]

Rubio's reverse course on Trump is pretty deserving of criticism, IMO. Here's the link to the article -- couldn't grab it earlier on mobile: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/donald-trump-has-exposed-marco-rubio/article/2592452 (Of course, scathing op-eds exist for everybody -- I just thought this one was on point.)

 

For all of Rubio's rhetoric about responsible leadership, he's now willing to embrace a demagogue just because that demagogue has an 'R' next to his name. Trump, for all his faults, has managed to expose Rubio's true character — and it is not pretty.

This happens all the time with politicians who magnify their differences during primary season and then mend ties after. To fall in line legitimizes Trump in that way, which I'd hope would be massively disappointing to anyone who sees Trump for what he is.

I used to have high hopes for Rubio. I thought he was going to be a more aspirational figure than he has turned out to be. He's young and has plenty of time to change, but what a strange direction he's chosen to head down.

Of course I don't expect Republicans to resist the pull to board the Trump train and justify that in whatever awkward, contorted way they please (waiting on Paul Ryan...) But I mean, at least in Ryan's case, he's the House speaker and there's enormous pressure for him to offer some passable show of unity. Guys like Rubio and Christie didn't need to do this, but they chose to. Jeb Bush has been silent. He and Romney are skipping the convention. Nebraska's own Ben Sasse won't endorse Trump. I respect that. And to be clear, if someone as outrageous as Trump ever became a Dem nominee -- this is bound to happen at some point in time or other -- I'd place a similar expectation on other Dem politicians who can choose whether to hilariously fall in line or stand for themselves.

[Creighton Duke]

^^^^

Thankfully people realize how big of a loser Sasse is, both within the State and in the national party. I'm not a GOP person, but this guy is an embarrassment to the party and to Nebraska.

[HuskerNation1]

 

Rubio's reverse course on Trump is pretty deserving of criticism, IMO. Here's the link to the article -- couldn't grab it earlier on mobile: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/donald-trump-has-exposed-marco-rubio/article/2592452 (Of course, scathing op-eds exist for everybody -- I just thought this one was on point.)

 

For all of Rubio's rhetoric about responsible leadership, he's now willing to embrace a demagogue just because that demagogue has an 'R' next to his name. Trump, for all his faults, has managed to expose Rubio's true character — and it is not pretty.

This happens all the time with politicians who magnify their differences during primary season and then mend ties after. To fall in line legitimizes Trump in that way, which I'd hope would be massively disappointing to anyone who sees Trump for what he is.

I used to have high hopes for Rubio. I thought he was going to be a more aspirational figure than he has turned out to be. He's young and has plenty of time to change, but what a strange direction he's chosen to head down.

Of course I don't expect Republicans to resist the pull to board the Trump train and justify that in whatever awkward, contorted way they please (waiting on Paul Ryan...) But I mean, at least in Ryan's case, he's the House speaker and there's enormous pressure for him to offer some passable show of unity. Guys like Rubio and Christie didn't need to do this, but they chose to. Jeb Bush has been silent. He and Romney are skipping the convention. Nebraska's own Ben Sasse won't endorse Trump. I respect that. And to be clear, if someone as outrageous as Trump ever became a Dem nominee -- this is bound to happen at some point in time or other -- I'd place a similar expectation on other Dem politicians who can choose whether to hilariously fall in line or stand for themselves.

 

 

Well I will fully expect Sanders to come out and support Hillary after a long-heated battle in which he was highly critical of her as well, but we'll see if that happens. As for aspirational candidates, I still think Rubio can support his party's nominee and be aspirational in the future. It's not as if he's pulled an Obama who was the aspirational candidate in 2008 and has turned out to be the most divisive in US history after being sworn in. Perhaps a President Rubio would make the same transition that Obama has made, but its way too early to suggest a now aspirational Rubio is falling down the path that Obama unfortunately has.

 

I do think you raise a good point about those not supporting Trump, and I can respect them for not doing it. I would also expect many Bernie supporters (both public figures and those on here) to not support Hillary given their strong differences with her. We'll see if the Bernie fans follow suit with Jeb and Romney and either don't vote or do a write-in name. I saw a poll out in the past week that 36% of Bernie supporters are actually planning to vote for Trump...go figure.

[zoogs]

Yes, I think there's a definite overlap in appeal for Bernie and Trump. Both have built their campaigns on anti-establishment anger, largely because they've had little choice -- neither has an established political foundation to draw upon. I suppose there's a fair bit of question as to where the 'candidate' ends and where 'the candidate's electorate' begins, for both of these guys.

 

I do think that Bernie is ultimately more about advancing his sharper brand of progressivism than he is about demolishing the establishment. But who knows. His campaign has turned into the latter. If it's the former, the real differences between him and Hilary's politics aren't too many -- just she's more grounded in pragmatism (or a 'centrist who shouldn't get to claim liberal street cred', depending on how you want to see it) and more into policy detail.

 

And less likely to create a beautiful campaign moment with a little birdie.

 

If only a guy like Kasich had won the Repub ticket, perhaps we could have had a real race between sane, capable, but flawed (as they always are) candidates committed to pursuing slightly different agendas while both being likely to run competent administrations. Maybe next time.

[funhusker]

Yes, I think there's a definite overlap in appeal for Bernie and Trump. Both have built their campaigns on anti-establishment anger, largely because they've had little choice -- neither has an established political foundation to draw upon. I suppose there's a fair bit of question as to where the 'candidate' ends and where 'the candidate's electorate' begins, for both of these guys.

 

I do think that Bernie is ultimately more about advancing his sharper brand of progressivism than he is about demolishing the establishment. But who knows. His campaign has turned into the latter. If it's the former, the real differences between him and Hilary's politics aren't too many -- just she's more grounded in pragmatism (or a 'centrist who shouldn't get to claim liberal street cred', depending on how you want to see it) and more into policy detail.

 

And less likely to create a beautiful campaign moment with a little birdie.

 

If only a guy like Kasich had won the Repub ticket, perhaps we could have had a real race between sane, capable, but flawed (as they always are) candidates committed to pursuing slightly different agendas while both being likely to run competent administrations. Maybe next time.

I concur.

[Danny Bateman]

Rubio is not the only one either, Zoogs. Ted Cruz has gone down a similar path, though he's fallen rather dormant for a while now.

 

There is an important distinction between Sanders and his followers falling in line with Clinton and that of Cruz or Rubio's followings doing the same for Trump. As divisive and intense as the Democratic primary has been, their differences have always been rooted in policy differences. Bernie probably believe Clinton and most establishment Dems are not progressive enough and represent the old order, and she probably thinks he's a democratic socialist kook who's much too far left to get anything done. But aside from that odd period prior to NY where Bernie proceeded to call her unqualified because he thought she had done that to him (she didn't), their chasm exists due to differing ideologies.

 

The Republican side is quite a bit more personal. Trump spent his entire campaign referring to them as Lyin' Ted and Little Marco. He lashed out at Cruz's wife on Twitter and tried to implicate his dad in the JFK assassination FFS. He aped Rubio endlessly about his debate meltdown. Cruz spent most of his campaign saying Trump was a liberal, and Rubio called him a con man.

 

But at the end of the day, Cruz can't say he won't support the Republican nominee, and now Rubio is getting on board.

 

I think they must've convinced themselves their duty to support their party is sacred above all else. They clearly don't believe in who's leading it.