Secondary play...

[Mavric]

Teams that run more and pass less almost always have lower YPP. "Successful running" YPP is lower than "OK passing" YPP. One thing to consider. Obviously I haven't dug around the numbers.

 

Which is an argument for stopping the pass first, is it not?

[NebraskaShellback]

I thought the secondary did better with knock down passes in that game. Considering that the D played 84 snaps in the game. The last 6 games, I wonder about the officiating crew on some calls.

[zoogs]

 

Teams that run more and pass less almost always have lower YPP. "Successful running" YPP is lower than "OK passing" YPP. One thing to consider. Obviously I haven't dug around the numbers.

Which is an argument for stopping the pass first, is it not?

 

I'm not sure, but it's an interesting thought. Conversely, it'd also be an argument for passing first.

 

Of course, mean is not the only measure of success. Passing is more volatile, and that affects the expected payoffs. There's greater risk, and TOP-freezing incompletions, etc.

 

Generally, I can certainly see the argument for stopping the run. The problem is if you yield numbers by design in the run game, you give an awful lot. Teams can grind it at will even with lackluster runners, and at least control clock and keep the chains moving. To stop it requires intent.

 

On the other hand, the offense still has to do something quite right to complete a pass. QB mechanics, accuracy, decision-making, WR hands ... all things inconsistent in college ball. Wes Lunt and Illinois managed only 14 points on this beleaguered secondary; could've been more, but passing operations stop themselves sometimes. As DBs get more acclimated, you'd expect competitiveness to improve -- and force more errors from offenses that aren't proficient at passing.

 

So, yeah, I'm kind of on board with this vision. You can see where they are going with it.

 

Of course, no defense simply leaves the run open. It's up to offenses to force the defense to focus run, and then hit over the top. I think that's what's being done to us right now. So I think the story goes beyond "DB play regression", which undoubtedly has occurred. I think it's also having to try harder than we'd like to avoid getting gashed by the run -- that's injuries, depth, experience, in the front 7.

 

saunders posted a very pertinent graphic, though, about some of our upcoming opponents. If those guys can deal a great amount of aerial damage, it'll be a red flag. At the end of the day, it's about this year and so, given what we have right now it's up to the coaches to put together something that can give us a shot at winning.

 

--

 

Appreciate the discussion, Mav -- these are nothing if not interesting

Edited October 12, 2015 by zoogs
too many words! cleaned up a little.

[Mavric]

[Mavric]

[Saunders]

M. Leidner 26-40, 301 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT

 

Career high.

[Mavric]

Minnesota was averaging 176 passing yards per game.

 

They have played Colorado State, Kent State, Ohio and Purdue this year.

[huskerfan92]

Watching Michigan State's receivers....to go with the fact they have Connor Cook. We are going to need to put up 70, their passing game will destroy us

[melscott62]

The yards we give up in the 4th speak to our lack of depth.... And possibly s&c as well

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Yes, the pass defense hasn't been brilliant this year, and was brilliant last year. At this point it's simply: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Maybe we need a new secondary coach, which would make it secondary coach #7593028 in 6 years.

[SouthLincoln Husker]

Minnesota threw 40 times. When teams can not run against us and throw 40 times, we are going to give up some yards. Plain & simple.

[PaulCrewe]

The fact Mitch friggin Leidner was 17-18 deep into the second half is a joke.

[True2tRA]

Passing yards stats aren't pretty, but don't allow touchdowns, force a few turnovers, and continue stopping the run.

 

If the offense can cover your ass, you've got good odds.

 

Stave got lucky and had a lot of "would be" interceptions dropped or that Wisconsin game would have been much different. Leidner may have gotten a lot of yards, but we forced Minnesota out of their comfort zone, and it paid off with a few interceptions.

 

We have a winning formula. We could still get better at executing it, but yards don't matter if they don't score, and if we force teams out of their comfort zone, turnovers will happen. It's gonna work out more and more the better these players get in these systems. Offense did a great job of making sure they took advantage of the opportunities they had.

[Hayseed]

I think we need to lay some of these arguments to rest.

 

This was a shaky defense last year that regularly fell apart. If they had pass defense rankings that were high, it was a combination of a scheme more devoted to it, and teams exploiting other areas, and maybe a function too of the kinds of teams we played. Kaaya didn't have much trouble throwing.

 

The defense is one unit, not two. They were not good last year, and they are still shaky this year. As Riley says, you need tangible results to start building that confidence.

 

This year they've traded, schematically, the pass defense focus for a run defense focus. Whether that was wise or not, we'll see.

 

As Nebraska fans we always talk about how great it is if you can run the ball well and control the game. You'd think more of us would see this approach and say "OK, yeah. I can see how we'd rather take our chances and make teams beat us through the air. And I can see why they probably will do well until the talent level is upgraded."

Do you think it's talent level or just the way they're taught to watch the receiver and try to knock the ball out at the last second? The huge cushion and blind coverage is a mystery to me....it's not how any of our corners who went to the pros played. Or maybe these corners are always getting beat and trying to play catchup?

[84HuskerLaw]

 

I think we need to lay some of these arguments to rest.

 

This was a shaky defense last year that regularly fell apart. If they had pass defense rankings that were high, it was a combination of a scheme more devoted to it, and teams exploiting other areas, and maybe a function too of the kinds of teams we played. Kaaya didn't have much trouble throwing.

 

The defense is one unit, not two. They were not good last year, and they are still shaky this year. As Riley says, you need tangible results to start building that confidence.

 

This year they've traded, schematically, the pass defense focus for a run defense focus. Whether that was wise or not, we'll see.

 

As Nebraska fans we always talk about how great it is if you can run the ball well and control the game. You'd think more of us would see this approach and say "OK, yeah. I can see how we'd rather take our chances and make teams beat us through the air. And I can see why they probably will do well until the talent level is upgraded."

Do you think it's talent level or just the way they're taught to watch the receiver and try to knock the ball out at the last second? The huge cushion and blind coverage is a mystery to me....it's not how any of our corners who went to the pros played. Or maybe these corners are always getting beat and trying to play catchup?

 

I would say the thing our secondary guys and to some extent our LBs and DEs lack is 'closing speed' and quickness. You can call it 'talent' or not but if your defenders can't cover and close as the ball is coming in so they have a legitimate chance to break up the pass or knock the ball loose with their hands or a solid hit well timed, then you are at best following the receivers around and tackling them after they make the catch. In such defenses you are going to basically only have incomplete passes IF either the QB throws a poor pass or the receiver drops it or there is a miscommunication as to route or something, or perhaps wind or weather make the completion tough or you have a strong pass rush who hit the QB or deflect or make the throw go awry.

You are very limited in your pass rush if you are fully dedicated to stopping the run as your front seven have to focus heavily on making sure it is not a delayed action run such as a draw or option or other slow hitter running design or a screen pass or other similar play which is designed to take advantage of hard rushing DL / LBs after the QB. Thus, you are only going to get heavy pass rush from either brute force or outstanding play by your DTs or DEs or by gambling with blitzes and sacrificing in your pass or run defense / prevention schemes.

Riley and Company have chosen to play pretty basic, 'honest' defense whereby we are attempting to force the opponent to 'execute' their plays successfully and repeatedly and to score in so doing. We are focused on stopping running plays primarily. We remain in our base 4-3 alignment a lot even in obvious passing 3rd & longs and or running 2nd and shorts plays. Keep it simple and stop the run first, and defend the pass with the mindset of giving up the short completions as opposed to the long ones. That in a nutshell is our defensive philosophy. At least as I 'see' it from reading and listening since I do not get to watch the games on TV or live.

I personally feel this is a good approach and would concur. I, however, think there are times when the defense ought to change up and go into a 'pass defend first mode' and dare the opponent to run it, in 3rd and over 12 cases when we are playing on the opponent's end of the field. Dare them to run for big yards against the pass defense alignment. Or at least substitute LBs for your speediest DBs and Safeties to flood the passing areas with extra quick bodies. Yes a safety is not as tough a tackler as the LBs but he doesn't have to stop the RB in his tracks, just bring him down before he gains the first down. Make 'em punt.

All this is of course pretty elementary and I would not presume to have anywhere close to the X & Os knowledge of the coaches or many others. I am also assuming these basic approaches are what we are trying to do - perhaps just not very well. Players make mistakes and sometimes are not quite fast enough or tall enough or strong enough or something. Sometimes opponents execute well and we get blocked, tackled, fooled and out guessed in plays. That is football!