Executing the Scheme

[NUinID]

 

The difference between Riley and Bo? When Riley says they aren't executing, he says that's on the coaching staff for not teaching the players better.

Totally agree...but if it is on the coaches and they have been doing it for a billion years...isn't that a huge problem?

 

With that said...I see Riley winning the west this year!

 

You know I don't know if they will win the west this year, but I guess I get tired of the "The Sky is Falling" constantly.

 

There is too much assuming that the coaching staff is not doing anything to make the pass defense better. I am fairly sure that the pass defense is the biggest concern on Mike Riley and his defensive staffs mind. Saying they need to fix it and fix it fast is too simplistic.

 

It is not a an easy fix.

It is a schematic problem from the stand point that the defensive backs are being asked to do something different and they are still learning.

It is a schematic problem in the fact that they are going to give up more yards because that is the trade off to having a more sound rushing defense. Everyone knew this, but I think a lot of people didn't believe it would be true.

It is a technique problem. This is the best thing that can be improved in the secondary right now. They need to play their parts better, crisper, tighter.

It is an experience problem most notably at the linebacker level.

It is a talent problem. I don't think our CB are as talented as most thought they were, but they are not this untalented.

It is a confidence problem. They need to have good sound game to get some confidence going in the right direction.

 

It is not just simply do this, this and this scheme wise and the defense quits giving up big chunk yards. It is a lot of little problems making one big problem. Most of these things will get better through simple repetition.

 

That unfortunately takes time.

[NUance]

First year, four games in, players still don't execute the scheme efficiently or effectively.

 

Seven years, 95 games in, players still don't execute the scheme efficiently or effectively.

 

 

If you can't see the difference

 

 

You talkin' to me??

[JJ Husker]

 

 

Oh my god, why is the best argument "It's only 4 games, they will get better just because!".

No, you get better by adjusting the scheme and helping the players. The players have to push harder to get better, the coaches have to make the right decisions to put the players in the best position to properly execute.

After 4 games, we have learned that any team can put up 300 yards plus passing against us. Can we quit pretending it isn't an issue?

Who cares the Big Ten isn't a pass happy league??? We bring this weak defense in against most Big ten squads, they have a season high passing day. And if we want to compete post season, it will be against non conference foes. So that kinda makes that idea moot.

Inpatient children. Maybe if you stomped your feet and shed a few tears they would magically play better, sooner.

Do you really not understand the value of time in a new system? It's not "just because", time is required to allow the players to learn, practice, recognize, repetition, etc. Of course more than 4 games or 10 months will help. Time will also be required to get rid of the guys that aren't best for these new systems and to get new guys who are. This ain't Google or a text message that happens virtually immediately. It. Takes. Time.

And who is saying there aren't problems with our pass defense? Of course there are problems. Everyone sees them. No pass rush or pressure on the qb. We've got corners being asked to play on an island and so far they have not been able to do it. Some of it is scheme and some of it is talent. Time is required to tweak scheme issues and a lot more time will be required to change talent levels. Is this scheme not basically what MSU uses? So, you tell me what the more likely culprit of the problem is. It's been 10 months and 4 frikken games, that's it. This instant gratification society can be a real problem when people can't realize some things take time.

So we see problems, we just aren't allowed to address them on a public forum. If we do, we are an angry child. Got it.

 

Is that what I said? No, that isn't what I said.

 

I said "inpatient children". It was directed at a segment (not just you and not necessarily you personally) on HB who fail to acknowledge that some things and some changes take more time than others. There is a difference between angry and inpatient, in fact they are nothing at all alike.

 

Who says people can't address problems they see here? I haven't said that. I haven't seen others say it. However, the problem begins when people constantly address these issues but fail to acknowledge that there is a certain time element required for getting them corrected. Yes, everyone knows our pass defense the first four games has sucked. Anyone pointing this out is not shedding new light on a single thing. When that person is showing signs of impatience after only 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 games, then I have to wonder about what state of reality they reside in. If their opinion is that this defensive system will never work, then I wish they would use as proof more things than our 4 games. Our measly 4 game sample has not proven this system won't work. Bankers and Rileys past at OSU has not proven that it can't work here. I know many people hold these opinions, I only ask that they present their case clearly and quit acting like a couple poor showings prove that it will never work. Trust me, I get it. I am beginning to have my doubts as well but I am willing to give it some time to see if they make required scheme changes and longer term, to see if some different talent helps the situation.

 

Bo had 7 years. I supported Bo for approximately the first 5.5 years of that 7. I don't foresee myself giving Riley that much time, especially when it comes to this sucky defense. But 4 games? 10 months? No recruiting impact yet? Come on. People getting inpatient at this point in time just aren't prepared to give the coaching change the amount of time it reasonably requires. They are being unreasonable, inpatient children. We already have a handful of posters who basically acknowledge they hated the hire and they're going to throw their little hissy fit in every frikken thread they can get into. I don't want to see you join their ranks but frankly, I am beginning to wonder.

[jsneb83]

 

 

The difference between Riley and Bo? When Riley says they aren't executing, he says that's on the coaching staff for not teaching the players better.

Totally agree...but if it is on the coaches and they have been doing it for a billion years...isn't that a huge problem?

 

With that said...I see Riley winning the west this year!

Different players learn differently and at different speeds. If you been at a program long enough, you also have the older guys to help teach the younger guys and most of your starters have been in the system for more than a year.

[Dagerow]

Ill explain it. Yes, it takes time to install a new system and recruit your players, but taking that into account, the defense is playing poorly. Stayed another way, I expect a good coach to put out a better defense then what we've seen while teaching a new scheme and not using his players.

 

Look at the offense. Arguably, they have less players that fit Riley's scheme, but they look good and you can see the potential. The same can not be said about the defense, and I don't think it's due to the players.

[Stumpy1]

Yr. Pass Defense Rush Defense

2007 114 39

2008 70 67

2009 112 24

2010 60 37

2011 11 9

2012 9 8

2013 3 2

2014 61 1

 

These are the rankings of Michigan State's pass and rush defense from when Dantonio and Narduzzi took over. As you can see, their stats didn't start out so hot but became better after a few years of getting the guys they needed to run their defense. I can't see any reason why we can't give Riley and Banker the same time instead of demanding immediate success

[JJ Husker]

Ill explain it. Yes, it takes time to install a new system and recruit your players, but taking that into account, the defense is playing poorly. Stayed another way, I expect a good coach to put out a better defense then what we've seen while teaching a new scheme and not using his players.

Look at the offense. Arguably, they have less players that fit Riley's scheme, but they look good and you can see the potential. The same can not be said about the defense, and I don't think it's due to the players.

Thank you. I would mostly agree. However, I do think some of it is the players and I do think some of it is the lack of exposure time in the new system. But it also is so piss poor that there just has to be some structural issues.

[Enhance]

Ill explain it. Yes, it takes time to install a new system and recruit your players, but taking that into account, the defense is playing poorly. Stayed another way, I expect a good coach to put out a better defense then what we've seen while teaching a new scheme and not using his players.

 

Look at the offense. Arguably, they have less players that fit Riley's scheme, but they look good and you can see the potential. The same can not be said about the defense, and I don't think it's due to the players.

You're probably right, but IMHO defense is inherently more difficult to teach and execute because of it's very nature - it's defensive. It's based on what you think a team will do, reading it and then reacting. You're constantly behind the 8-ball and are always looking for ways not to be.

 

Not trying to make excuses because I certainly believe the secondary should be playing better than they are. It's unacceptable right now. I just don't think it's fair to compare the offense and defense as if they're equal in parts and philosophy because I don't believe they are.

[QMany]

Yr. Pass Defense Rush Defense

2007 114 39

2008 70 67

2009 112 24

2010 60 37

2011 11 9

2012 9 8

2013 3 2

2014 61 1

 

These are the rankings of Michigan State's pass and rush defense from when Dantonio and Narduzzi took over. As you can see, their stats didn't start out so hot but became better after a few years of getting the guys they needed to run their defense. I can't see any reason why we can't give Riley and Banker the same time instead of demanding immediate success

What were their rankings before their arrival?

 

EDIT: What is your source? I'm seeing different numbers.

[wanderful]

The defense is definitely frustrating at the moment -- and not in the way you WANT defenses to be frustrating (i.e. to other teams!).

 

But look at it this way: this defense is composed of most of the same players that 8 games ago gave up the NCAA record for rushing yards in a game. This is that same group of guys, only minus a 2nd round draft pick and adding some true freshman. Defense was bad to end the season last year and they're bad (albeit in a different way) to begin the season this year.

 

I know I'm not the first person to make this argument, but it just goes to show that, while scheme is probably part of the reason pass d is terrible so far, at least part of the problem also has to be personnel (either physically or mentally). Which means it's going to take longer to fix than any of us are happy with.

 

However, I'm not saying that Banker, et al shouldn't be doing everything they can to tweak the scheme to put our defense in the best position for success. I'm just saying that the defensive problems were so severe last season, and then to come into this season with such a depleted LB core -- it's just going to require time to get everything where we want it.

 

So try and refrain from being "in-patient"

[Stumpy1]

 

Yr. Pass Defense Rush Defense

2007 114 39

2008 70 67

2009 112 24

2010 60 37

2011 11 9

2012 9 8

2013 3 2

2014 61 1

 

These are the rankings of Michigan State's pass and rush defense from when Dantonio and Narduzzi took over. As you can see, their stats didn't start out so hot but became better after a few years of getting the guys they needed to run their defense. I can't see any reason why we can't give Riley and Banker the same time instead of demanding immediate success

What were their rankings before their arrival?

 

EDIT: What is your source? I'm seeing different numbers.

 

I used the NCAA website. The only one that was different was 2007, which I got from ESPN, because the site didn't go back that far.

 

Also, what does it matter what their rankings were before. It would be comparing apples to oranges unless the previous staff ran the same defense as Dantonio and Narduzzi.

[Redux]

 

 

 

Oh my god, why is the best argument "It's only 4 games, they will get better just because!".

No, you get better by adjusting the scheme and helping the players. The players have to push harder to get better, the coaches have to make the right decisions to put the players in the best position to properly execute.

After 4 games, we have learned that any team can put up 300 yards plus passing against us. Can we quit pretending it isn't an issue?

Who cares the Big Ten isn't a pass happy league??? We bring this weak defense in against most Big ten squads, they have a season high passing day. And if we want to compete post season, it will be against non conference foes. So that kinda makes that idea moot.

 

Inpatient children. Maybe if you stomped your feet and shed a few tears they would magically play better, sooner.

Do you really not understand the value of time in a new system? It's not "just because", time is required to allow the players to learn, practice, recognize, repetition, etc. Of course more than 4 games or 10 months will help. Time will also be required to get rid of the guys that aren't best for these new systems and to get new guys who are. This ain't Google or a text message that happens virtually immediately. It. Takes. Time.

And who is saying there aren't problems with our pass defense? Of course there are problems. Everyone sees them. No pass rush or pressure on the qb. We've got corners being asked to play on an island and so far they have not been able to do it. Some of it is scheme and some of it is talent. Time is required to tweak scheme issues and a lot more time will be required to change talent levels. Is this scheme not basically what MSU uses? So, you tell me what the more likely culprit of the problem is. It's been 10 months and 4 frikken games, that's it. This instant gratification society can be a real problem when people can't realize some things take time.

So we see problems, we just aren't allowed to address them on a public forum. If we do, we are an angry child. Got it.

Is that what I said? No, that isn't what I said.

 

I said "inpatient children". It was directed at a segment (not just you and not necessarily you personally) on HB who fail to acknowledge that some things and some changes take more time than others. There is a difference between angry and inpatient, in fact they are nothing at all alike.

 

Who says people can't address problems they see here? I haven't said that. I haven't seen others say it. However, the problem begins when people constantly address these issues but fail to acknowledge that there is a certain time element required for getting them corrected. Yes, everyone knows our pass defense the first four games has sucked. Anyone pointing this out is not shedding new light on a single thing. When that person is showing signs of impatience after only 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 games, then I have to wonder about what state of reality they reside in. If their opinion is that this defensive system will never work, then I wish they would use as proof more things than our 4 games. Our measly 4 game sample has not proven this system won't work. Bankers and Rileys past at OSU has not proven that it can't work here. I know many people hold these opinions, I only ask that they present their case clearly and quit acting like a couple poor showings prove that it will never work. Trust me, I get it. I am beginning to have my doubts as well but I am willing to give it some time to see if they make required scheme changes and longer term, to see if some different talent helps the situation.

 

Bo had 7 years. I supported Bo for approximately the first 5.5 years of that 7. I don't foresee myself giving Riley that much time, especially when it comes to this sucky defense. But 4 games? 10 months? No recruiting impact yet? Come on. People getting inpatient at this point in time just aren't prepared to give the coaching change the amount of time it reasonably requires. They are being unreasonable, inpatient children. We already have a handful of posters who basically acknowledge they hated the hire and they're going to throw their little hissy fit in every frikken thread they can get into. I don't want to see you join their ranks but frankly, I am beginning to wonder.

I supported Bo for 6.5 years, and to a certain extent still like him as a coach. You really think I'm going to give up on Riley after 4 games?

 

My problem is it doesn't seem to matter who the opponent is. Every team we have faced thus far is torching is through the air. BYU is a good team, so is Miami. South Alabama, not so much. USM, they are okay but still. We know what teams are going to do to us, yet we haven't done anything about it. Thats my problem.

[QMany]

PASSING

 

Michigan State

Year prior to Narduzzi: 7.8 YPA and 230.9 PYPG.

Narduzzi's first year: 6.8 YPA and 219.7 PYPG.

 

Nebraska

Year prior to Banker: 6.1 YPA and 209.7 PYPG.

Banker's first year so far: 8.7 YPA and 379.5 PYPG.

 

EDIT: Pulling rushing now. I know we've improved significantly. These will be interesting to look at after the Big Ten schedule.

 

TOTAL

 

Michigan State

Year prior to Narduzzi: 5.5 yards per play and 363.8 YPG.

Narduzzi's first year: 4.9 yards per play and 345.5 YPG.

Nebraska

Year prior to Banker: 5.2 yards per play and 387.5 YPG.

Banker's first year so far: 6.2 yards per play and 453.0 YPG.

[MichiganDad3]

Nebraska should never be ranked dead last in any meaningful football statistic.

[Stumpy1]

PASSING

 

Michigan State

Year prior to Narduzzi: 7.8 YPA and 230.9 PYPG.

Narduzzi's first year: 6.8 YPA and 219.7 PYPG.

 

Nebraska

Year prior to Banker: 6.1 YPA and 209.7 PYPG.

Banker's first year so far: 8.7 YPA and 379.5 PYPG.

 

EDIT: Pulling rushing now. I know we've improved significantly. These will be interesting to look at after the Big Ten schedule.

 

TOTAL

 

Michigan State

Year prior to Narduzzi: 5.5 yards per play and 363.8 YPG.

Narduzzi's first year: 4.9 yards per play and 345.5 YPG.

Nebraska

Year prior to Banker: 5.2 yards per play and 387.5 YPG.

Banker's first year so far: 6.2 yards per play and 453.0 YPG.

I can do that also.

 

Nebraska

Year prior to Bo: 6.1 yards per play and 476.8 YPG

Bo's first year: 5.7 yards per play and 349.0 YPG

 

Alabama

Year prior to Saban: 5.2 yards per play and 297.7 YPG

Saban's first year: 5.0 yards per play and 345.5 YPG