The General Election

[Moiraine]

Can you imagine that address from the Oval Office?

 

Yeah, Landlord, I always get a chuckle out of the Trumpkins that are convinced that this is surely the Clinton campaign that leaked this. That it's just their brand of dirty politics.

 

Well... NBC owned the tape. And they were going to roll the story next week. But someone leaked it to Fahrenthold. So... where in this chain of command is Clinton?

 

 

I know you're not the one saying this, but it's not relevant who leaked it unless it's from a different country trying to interfere with our elections. And NBC was planning on airing this on Monday anyway.

[JJ Husker]

I know we're in uncharted waters here but I'm curious if anyone has any data on how fast and how drastic poll numbers have ever changed before.

 

What I'm getting at is, there are a whole bunch of people that have been in the Trump camp and it is pretty much impossible to remain there without being permanently branded a lunatic, a racist...a deplorable. But I still cannot fathom a rush of Trump supporters to the Hillary side. Do these people simply stay home or are we to soon see a massive shift towards Johnson? And yes I realize too many will remain on the sinking ship. I mean if the past few months haven't bucked them all off maybe the past couple days won't matter to them either. But there has to be a high number who are reaching the threshold. Are we about to see the craziest shift in candidate support that has ever occurred? Think I'll head out and get a new popcorn popper.

[Landlord]

I wonder who's more angry - Trump or NBC?

[Danny Bateman]

 

Can you imagine that address from the Oval Office?

 

Yeah, Landlord, I always get a chuckle out of the Trumpkins that are convinced that this is surely the Clinton campaign that leaked this. That it's just their brand of dirty politics.

 

Well... NBC owned the tape. And they were going to roll the story next week. But someone leaked it to Fahrenthold. So... where in this chain of command is Clinton?

 

 

I know you're not the one saying this, but it's not relevant who leaked it unless it's from a different country trying to interfere with our elections. And NBC was planning on airing this on Monday anyway.

 

 

Definitely.

 

Speaking of which... the news today that we officially blamed Russia for hacking us would've dominated any other day of any other year in America.

 

But it's instead completely obscured because one of the leading candidates for president this year is an insufferable sexist jackass.

[JJ Husker]

This is not aimed at anyone specific, but if you are still promoting and supporting Trump, you are a complete idiot.

 

BTW, this is coming from a person that would never vote for Hillary either. So you can save your liberal lover comments. Or go ahead with them, I don't care. I've been pretty solid on my stance that neither is worthy of the office. But I will now say that Trump is definitely less worthy. What a POS.

[Danny Bateman]

I know we're in uncharted waters here but I'm curious if anyone has any data on how fast and how drastic poll numbers have ever changed before.

 

What I'm getting at is, there are a whole bunch of people that have been in the Trump camp and it is pretty much impossible to remain there without being permanently branded a lunatic, a racist...a deplorable. But I still cannot fathom a rush of Trump supporters to the Hillary side. Do these people simply stay home or are we to soon see a massive shift towards Johnson? And yes I realize too many will remain on the sinking ship. I mean if the past few months haven't bucked them all off maybe the past couple days won't matter to them either. But there has to be a high number who are reaching the threshold. Are we about to see the craziest shift in candidate support that has ever occurred? Think I'll head out and get a new popcorn popper.

 

Sunday just got cranked up about eleven notches for me. Alas, I'm stuck with the microwave.

 

No idea on the historical context of poll shifts. We'll have to keep an eye on the numbers from next week. If we thought there was a lot to influence THIS weeks polling numbers from last week, wait until next week starts.

 

However, you're pretty much right. Trump's got an entrenched base of support that won't go anywhere no matter what happens. But anyone who had any misgivings at all at any point has to be scrambling over the others trying to get off this sinking ship.

 

But where will they go? They're now saying McMullin guy has some support in Utah. As does Johnson. I'd think that would be the first state he'd lose. Stein is not a serious candidate to me. But there's GOT to be an outflux of Trump support after this. There just has to be. Where it goes is fair game...

[JJ Husker]

LOL. So do these worthless candidates now make W not look so bad to some of you? I mean really, throw W up against these 2 and he wins by a landslide, doesn't he? I'd give my left one to have him as an option this year. But I never thought he was that bad either.

[zoogs]

A few things:

- Open borders and free trade sounds relatively good to me. At least, you'd have to make the case against them.

- "public" versus "private" positions is obvious. We, in fact, talk about this all the time. We widely *expect* politicians of any party to, whatever they may be adopting officially, have certain more nuanced thoughts (often more in line with our own expectation).

 

A good example of the latter is support for Trump. Well, Paul Ryan supports Trump but really, he's the Speaker of the House and the leader of his Party, so he kind of has to -- he may disagree with so many things Trump says, but he has to make this show of support to work with him and advance the Republican platform. Etc, etc.

 

There's a strong case to be made that throwing in publicly without any filter deprives us of the ability to have sensibly negotiated policies. A discussion that plays out entirely in public is an exercise in posturing and stance-taking, with a keen eye towards scoring political points. In private, you have certain goals that are more important than others and you're willing to make those trade-offs, but "I'll yield A for B if it comes to it" is not the kind of stance you take out in the open.

 

A brief journey back to the topic of sexual harassment. These are things we'd probably mostly forgot about. Unsettling is the right word: (Emphasis mine, in light of Trump's recently come-to-light direct quotes)

 

 

Trump’s comments are an unsettling reminder of a story that former Miss Utah Temple Taggart told the New York Times. She said Trump kissed her on the lips at the Miss USA pageant, twice, against her will.

We cannot ignore that Trump hasn't just said countless boorish things about women in public. He has also been accused of sexually aggressive and creepy behavior in private, as interviews with dozens of women who worked with or for him have revealed.

Some of those encounters were the textbook definition of a “hostile work environment” created by sexual harassment and objectifying behavior. Others, like Taggart’s story, could constitute sexual assault.

And Trump has also been accused, in sworn statements, of a brutal 1989 rape by his ex-wife Ivana, and of sexual assault by another woman, Jill Harth.

[Moiraine]

LOL. So do these worthless candidates now make W not look so bad to some of you? I mean really, throw W up against these 2 and he wins by a landslide, doesn't he? I'd give my left one to have him as an option this year. But I never thought he was that bad either.

 

 

I thought Bush was stupid but his heart was in the right place. (The latter doesn't mean I don't think he was a disaster in many ways).

I thought Cheney was smart and evil.

 

Trump is stupid and evil and would make Bush's disasters look like annoyances.

[Danny Bateman]

 

A few things:

- Open borders and free trade sounds relatively good to me. At least, you'd have to make the case against them.

- "public" versus "private" positions is obvious. We, in fact, talk about this all the time. We widely *expect* politicians of any party to, whatever they may be adopting officially, have certain more nuanced thoughts (often more in line with our own expectation).

 

A good example of the latter is support for Trump. Well, Paul Ryan supports Trump but really, he's the Speaker of the House and the leader of his Party, so he kind of has to -- he may disagree with so many things Trump says, but he has to make this show of support to work with him and advance the Republican platform. Etc, etc.

 

There's a strong case to be made that throwing in publicly without any filter deprives us of the ability to have sensibly negotiated policies. A discussion that plays out entirely in public is an exercise in posturing and stance-taking, with a keen eye towards scoring political points. In private, you have certain goals that are more important than others and you're willing to make those trade-offs, but "I'll yield A for B if it comes to it" is not the kind of stance you take out in the open.

 

A brief journey back to the topic of sexual harassment. These are things we'd probably mostly forgot about. Unsettling is the right word: (Emphasis mine, in light of Trump's recently come-to-light direct quotes)

 

 

Trump’s comments are an unsettling reminder of a story that former Miss Utah Temple Taggart told the New York Times. She said Trump kissed her on the lips at the Miss USA pageant, twice, against her will.

We cannot ignore that Trump hasn't just said countless boorish things about women in public. He has also been accused of sexually aggressive and creepy behavior in private, as interviews with dozens of women who worked with or for him have revealed.

Some of those encounters were the textbook definition of a “hostile work environment” created by sexual harassment and objectifying behavior. Others, like Taggart’s story, could constitute sexual assault.

And Trump has also been accused, in sworn statements, of a brutal 1989 rape by his ex-wife Ivana, and of sexual assault by another woman, Jill Harth.

 

 

 

I really don't like to bring this stuff up since I cannot find a reputable source on it. But there is an active rape allegation against Trump, from a minor, in preliminary civil court right.

 

It could be nothing, since it's just an allegation. I'm inclined to just wait and see. But given the context of everything else going on today, it just makes this entire thing feel incredibly gross.

[Landlord]

It could be nothing, since it's just an allegation. I'm inclined to just wait and see. But given the context of everything else going on today, it just makes this entire thing feel incredibly gross.

 

 

 

It's definitely not 'nothing', because an element of the story is Trump being good friends with a convicted pedophile predator, and defending him as being a great guy.

[JJ Husker]

 

It could be nothing, since it's just an allegation. I'm inclined to just wait and see. But given the context of everything else going on today, it just makes this entire thing feel incredibly gross.

 

 

 

It's definitely not 'nothing', because an element of the story is Trump being good friends with a convicted pedophile predator, and defending him as being a great guy.

Well then, it sounds like he's got his health and human services director all set to go.

[zoogs]

 

 

It could be nothing, since it's just an allegation. I'm inclined to just wait and see. But given the context of everything else going on today, it just makes this entire thing feel incredibly gross.

 

 

It's definitely not 'nothing', because an element of the story is Trump being good friends with a convicted pedophile predator, and defending him as being a great guy.

Well then, it sounds like he's got his health and human services director all set to go.

 

 

Roger Ailes?

 

Oh, wait, that was the other guy Trump defended as a great guy after he was ousted as Fox News chief over a torrent of sexual harassment allegations, and has since been part of Trump's campaign operation.

 

Future chief of Trump's post-election media company.

[teachercd]

This is so horrible.

 

How are charges not going to be pressed?

[zoogs]

 

LOL. So do these worthless candidates now make W not look so bad to some of you? I mean really, throw W up against these 2 and he wins by a landslide, doesn't he? I'd give my left one to have him as an option this year. But I never thought he was that bad either.

 

 

I thought Bush was stupid but his heart was in the right place. (The latter doesn't mean I don't think he was a disaster in many ways).

I thought Cheney was smart and evil.

 

Trump is stupid and evil and would make Bush's disasters look like annoyances.

 

 

I agree with the above, but I also think Bush was dangerously incoherent in policy compared to the man who won the popular vote that year. And it facilitated the result where he was surrounded by and yielded to people who pushed the country in dangerous directions.