The Obama Legacy

[TGHusker]

 

Obama has failed this country over the past 8 years.

 

 

 

 

 

What neither Trump nor the company has announced officially, however, is just what the Indiana government has offered as an inducement to stay. But you can assume, even with the pressure from the President-Elect, that Indiana paid up. Earlier on Wednesday, a source close to the company told Fortune that United Technologies would get $700,000 in state tax breaks for a number of years.

 

This is congruent from what we know about the sort of tax breaks Indiana and Indianapolis has already offered the firm. Back in 2011, the city gave the company a six-year property tax abatement, which allowed them to forgo paying $1.2 million in taxes, according to the Indianapolis Star. The company has also taken advantage of funds the state allocates for job retraining, and had reached a deal with Indiana to return several hundred thousand dollars for contributions it made to the company’s retraining programs as a part of the state’s Skills Enhancement Fund.

 

So do these deals make sense for the American economy? Economists have increasingly frowned upon the competitive offering of tax incentives by state and local to large companies in order to keep or attract facilities that create jobs. That’s because the majority of jobs are created by young companies and not the ones that local governments pay so much to keep. What’s more, most of the time companies are often just looking to move hundreds of miles, not thousands. And moving jobs to a neighboring state can be tough on local budgets and local politicians, but means little to the U.S. economy as a whole.

 

The result: These inducements often are just acts of lavishing tax breaks on companies that don’t need them, and don’t have the most potential for creating new jobs.

 

 

So, Trump is going to bribe companies with tax breaks to keep a portion of their jobs in the States.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Obama.

 

So, if a person is a conservative, how should someone look at the Carrier deal? I'm not going to repeat my rant on the Republican and 100 day threads but add a bit more. My perspective and I'm not saying this is a litmus test for conservatives, is this: Conservatives are suppose to believe in private property rights, we are suppose to believe in free enterprise and self determination, equal opportunity but not equal results (results are determined by work ethic/effort, talents/abilities/skills/knowledge etc), so it is hypocritical in my view to believe in these values while supporting corporate welfare or crony capitalism. Again, I believe govt can level the playing field for all industries in general (or a target industry) via incentives and tax policy and doing what govt can only do - build (finance) the infrastructure in support of industry. So, I'm not excited about the Carrier deal because I think it sets us up for a continuation of this process - company threatens to leave, govt bribes them to stay.

 

Trump threatens companies that leave. This is opposite the conservative values I note above. Self determination is violated by these individual threats. It smacks a bit of "dictatorism". Example: If Texas has a better corp tax policy than Calif and a business decides to leave Ca in favor of Tx, California cannot threaten the company with 'exit taxes'. In the same way, Texas doesn't have an income tax, should Ca penalize citizens who leave for a state that has overall better tax policy and lessor burden. Trump should stop the threats and place emphasis on the positive things govt can do to lure companies back to the USA and keep businesses here. Trump should responded to Carrier and ask them what regulations were overly burdensome for them to consider to leave (I understand that was a major consideration in their decision to relocate the plant to Mexico). Then work on reducing the overall govt burden (tax, regulations) on all industries. Then perhaps they not only keep Carrier, they would keep multiple other businesses without having to bribe them to stay. Gov't should provide incentives for development of new industries (energy for example) and relief for old industries to remove burdens that keep them from being competitive or enable them to modernize. Create a level playing field for equal opportunity but allow the best to survive - not equal results. Ok - I guess that is rant # 2. So it deserves this:

[HuskerNation1]

 

Thanks, Obama!

 

Record high number of Americans now out of the labor force...yes, thanks Obama.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/

[Landlord]

So leaving office with the country in a much better place than when you entered office is a sign of zero leadership, and burdening taxpayers with millions and millions of dollars of taxes to keep negligible numbers of jobs around is a sign of someone who 'gets it' and is accomplishing something good.

 

 

What kind of rabbit hole have I stumbled into here? Topsy turvy as all get out.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

https://twitter.com/seatimesbiz/status/804696166298427393

 

Thanks, Obama!

Record high number of Americans now out of the labor force...yes, thanks Obama.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/

Not saying this isn't an issue. But, I think someone needs to dig deeper into the numbers. The word "retirement" in this quote is important now that more and more baby boomers are retiring.

 

"The level of Americans outside of the workforce last month due to retirement, education, discouragement, or otherwise represented a substantial 446,000 increase over the month of October."

 

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/#ixzz4RnC7r72g

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/seatimesbiz/status/804696166298427393

 

Thanks, Obama!

Record high number of Americans now out of the labor force...yes, thanks Obama.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/

Not saying this isn't an issue. But, I think someone needs to dig deeper into the numbers. The word "retirement" in this quote is important now that more and more baby boomers are retiring.

 

"The level of Americans outside of the workforce last month due to retirement, education, discouragement, or otherwise represented a substantial 446,000 increase over the month of October."

 

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/#ixzz4RnC7r72g

 

 

Another thing I was reading about is that the numbers went up steadily up through the 90s but that was more due to women joining the workforce than anything else.

[HuskerNation1]

So leaving office with the country in a much better place than when you entered office is a sign of zero leadership, and burdening taxpayers with millions and millions of dollars of taxes to keep negligible numbers of jobs around is a sign of someone who 'gets it' and is accomplishing something good.

 

 

What kind of rabbit hole have I stumbled into here? Topsy turvy as all get out.

 

First, glad to see you back to posting political views in here rather than the football forum.

 

Second, he has not left the country in better shape on a host of issues.

 

1. If you want to talk about burdening taxpayers, Obama has done a lot to put this country in the hole, adding more to the national debt than any other POTUS in history. This burden will be felt for years to come and Trump will now be dealing with all the things Obama did not.

 

2. From a pure numbers perspective, I will give Obama credit for the unemployment rate being where it is today. But as I pointed out, there are a record number of Americans no longer working, and while some may be due to retirement, many have just given up. Moreover, his solutions to the financial crisis of 2008 has led to the worst economic recovery since the 1930s...and you think that is a success?

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-worst-economic-recovery-since-1930s-salaries-fall-17000-short/article/2598311

 

3. Income inequality has risen under Obama, especially in minority communities.

 

4. ISIS has grown and thrived under his watch at the same time the Middle East has gotten worse.

 

5. Racial divisions and general divisiveness in this country has gotten much worse than any point in my lifetime.

 

6. Obamacare, his signature legislation, is a failure and has not done a thing to contain rising health care costs (premiums and deductibles included) for all plans, not just those on Obamacare.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/09/27/health-insurance-premiums-have-continued-to-rise-faster-than-worker-wages-under-obamacare/#43cecfe03606

 

And that is just the starting point.

[ZRod]

1. This is an ignorant talking point. You're using numbers without context. Regan tops Obama as a percentage increase. F.D.R blows everyone away on almost all categories except raw dollars. Also each president inherts a few years debt from the previous one's policies and budget.

 

2. How can you expect a quick recovery when we had the largest recession since the great depression? This just blows my mind, and is another useless talking point. Numbers without context... Could it have been better? Probably, but what happened was pretty unprecedented.

 

3. Income inequality has risen since before Regan, and sored under Bush. Another ignorant talking point.

 

4. ISIS did grow under Obama and it's one of his major failures, but their control is shrinking and they are on the run. So far they have killed or injured very, very few Americans.

 

5. I think racial tension were pretty high in the 90s as well. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you were alive then too. LA hasn't been burning lately...

 

6. Obama care was poor legislation with good intentions. It was never supposed to stop rising healthcare, probably it's biggest failure, but it did slow the rate of increase. That's atleast a start.

 

Please keep going.

[zoogs]

Please don't.

[ZRod]

Please don't.

It's not a gameday. I'm bored...

[84HuskerLaw]

1. This is an ignorant talking point. You're using numbers without context. Regan tops Obama as a percentage increase. F.D.R blows everyone away on almost all categories except raw dollars. Also each president inherts a few years debt from the previous one's policies and budget.

 

2. How can you expect a quick recovery when we had the largest recession since the great depression? This just blows my mind, and is another useless talking point. Numbers without context... Could it have been better? Probably, but what happened was pretty unprecedented.

 

3. Income inequality has risen since before Regan, and sored under Bush. Another ignorant talking point.

 

4. ISIS did grow under Obama and it's one of his major failures, but they're control is shrinking and they are on the run. So far they have killed or injured very, very few Americans.

 

5. I think racial tension were pretty high in the 90s as well. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you were alive then too. LA hasn't been burning lately...

 

6. Obama care was poor legislation with good intentions. It was never supposed to stop rising healthcare, probably it's biggest failure, but it did slow the rate of increase. That's atleast a start.

 

Please keep going.

Reagan took the worst economy of the post WWII era (pre Obama atleast) and turned it into the strongest steady robust growth period in the country's history. He did nothing that would come close to the negatives of Obamanomics. He inherited the Jimmy Carter (misery index - something the Dems invented to describe how bad things really were in the Carter years amazingly) era of 'stagflation' (a stagnant but semi-hyper inflationary economic status) and got literally many millions of middle class jobs back into the workforce with new growing incomes and a rising standard of living. Poverty rates dropped substantially and household incomes rose. The Reagan recovery lasted from 1983 (it took nearly two years to get things turned around after Carter) well into the mid 1990s.

 

The late 1990s were largely the 'Reagan legacy' and would have continued into the new century EXCEPT for the crazy liberal housing/banking/mortgage laws that took the entire world economy to the brink ot total collapse with unbridled home mortgage lending without credit underwriting. Literally anybody could qualify for a home mortgage loan in the second Clinton term without a job for pete's sakes! All you had to show was a willingness to make the payments (which were often less than all of the annual interest) as they loans were often 'negative am' structured, especially in California and NY and other high real estate price locations.

 

The Clinton years are often thought of fondly by liberals as the 'good times' but the reality is the period was basically our Nation living on borrowed money (as households funded much current household 'living' expenses with long term mortgages and the rollover of trillions in current credit card debt into additional mortgage debts). These debts mushroomed and skyrocketed throughout the Clinton years. Basically the Clinton years were one big party funded with unlimited private sector and state and local governmental borrowing. People lived high using credit cards and mortgage redos because 'anything goes' was the basic underwriting slogan for many 'sub prime' and even the large 'prime' lending outfits. One big spending binge!

 

The federal budget was 'balanced' for one year due to one-time only bulge in fed tax revenues from accelerated income because of tax law changes AND because of rapid tax hikes on many individuals and most businesses. These tax hikes in the long haul have contributed to Obama's failings as taxes have never been adjusted down to correct for the overly high rates we have today

The national debt has DOUBLED under Obama yet we have nothing to show for it. Household living and incomes have fallen. The labor force has shrunk. Poverty has exploded. A majority of the American people have experienced the first decade long period of declining living standards, lower incomes, rising taxes and no longer believe their children will do better or even as well as they have. Trillions of dollars of the life savings of those in the age 45 to 75 bracket today have seen their life savings decline a bunch. Only the stock market has gone up remarkably. Sadly, Dems decry -and still are - the Bush idea of 'privatizing half of the social security funding' by investing it in the stock market. Imagine what the incredible gains and strengthening of social security would have been had we just used the Bush 'fix' for social security. Instead, the only betterment to social security which is still in fiscal danger of collapse, has been the outright gutting of senior citizens' monthly stipends by denying any inflation adjustments for the 8 Obama years! Talk about gutting seniors!

[Landlord]

Seriously. This guy has been using the same 10-15 talking points, verbatim, for the better part of six months now, and doesn't contribute anything to discussions. Can't we please get rid of him?

[84HuskerLaw]

Talking points are FACTS in my case. Once you accept them and think about them, you should begin to understand. Please. Then maybe we wont see the same BS from so many posts whose opinions are founded in fiction.

[NM11046]

You live in a Brietbart bubble.

[Landlord]

Talking points are FACTS in my case.

 

 

Unfortunately, yeah, that sounds about right.

[Moiraine]

Talking points are FACTS in my case. Once you accept them and think about them, you should begin to understand. Please. Then maybe we wont see the same BS from so many posts whose opinions are founded in fiction.

 

It's frankly pretty frightening to see this. This person either believes what he's saying or he's really good at trolling.