Enhance Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Why don't we look at statistical data instead of the feels? Anybody wanna do that? No, ok. I'll take my ball and go home... That poll made some sense to me, but I struggle why people think we're worse off in terms of the crime, taxes, terrorism, or position in world metrics now than we were in '09. Crime: Unless you're talking about the tension between law enforcement and the communities they serve, I don't understand this at all. Violent crime nationally is down across the board. I for one applaud Obama for trying to have a conversation about improving policing for everyone, including the police, rather than just ignoring it. Taxes: Obama's tax policies are rather progressive, are they not? I could've sworn he's raised taxes primarily on the wealthy. I guess people are just yearning for some tax cuts. Terrorism: I sort of understand this one because of the disparate amount of attention its given by the media and politicians. We need to be safe. But, it bears repeating: before Orlando happened, white supremacists had killed more Americans since 9/11 than Islamic terrorists. But I rarely hear people complain about the proliferation of white supremacists here... Position in the world: This one just boggles the mind. We're trapped in an echo chamber with people like Trump and right-wing media telling us how god-awful everything has become, how our country is going to hell in a hand basket, how no one respects us anymore... It's merely sensationalized propaganda. This garbage prevents a reasonable conversation about how to improve the country. Others are up for debate... If you haven't read what I posted above yet, people actually think we're better off in many of those areas than we were under Bush. If you take the poll at face value, and submit it as proof that "Americans" believe Obama has only improved our country in four ways (as bnilhome did), then you could easily walk way with the impression that we're worse off. But, the fact is (based on this poll) "Americans" think we're in a better position now than eight years ago in more than just four categories, we're just not where we need to be. I interpret your post above differently. The data you posted doesn't show that more people think we are better off in those bolded areas. It shows that more people think Obama improved those areas more than Bush did. I know it's a confusing statement, but, the question isn't...."are you better off" in those areas. It's...."did Bush/Obama improve" those areas. And, this really gets to ZRod's question above. This poll is measuring PERCEPTION. PERCEPTION many times is not REALITY. Perhaps we're getting too deep into the semantics of this, but do you really draw that significant of a distinction between "improved" and "better off?" They're closer to being synonyms than they are antonyms. It also feels a bit pedantic to draw substantial differences between the two. Regardless, I edited my second response to go more in line with my initial post on the topic by removing "better off", and in my initial post, I never said "better off." Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I think how the question is worded greatly affects how people respond. It seems like a small thing, but, it's a major reason why how questions are worded in polls is important. Link to comment
Enhance Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Fair enough, my friend. Link to comment
teachercd Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It is like asking are Husker fans "better off" with Riley? I see what BRB is saying and it makes sense. Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Not claiming that this isn't at least partially selective, but here are some numbers to chew on 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The numbers for clean energy, U.S. oil production, carbon emissions, vehicle MPG and the like are honestly the most important, and Obama did a genuinely fantastic job being progressive in this area. We're in danger of destroying our planet if we don't keep up the effort he was up to. 1 Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Despite my thoughts towards President Obama during his 8 years in office I do think he did some good things while he was there. I thank him for his service to our country and I wish him all the luck in the future. Regardless of where we stand with President Trump, we're all Americans and we're in this together, lets be hopeful that he does a great job as the leader of our country. We NEED him to do a great job that's for sure........... 3 Link to comment
zoogs Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I want to resist the idea of needing him to do a great job. I hope we're going to find we are quite capable of operating in spite of him. There's a danger in needing singular greatness out of our leaders. It's been a danger with many a president, including Obama. Thank goodness he was also quite decent and (largely) bound by norms, though certainly not without plenty of room for criticism. 1 Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I want to resist the idea of needing him to do a great job. I hope we're going to find we are quite capable of operating in spite of him. There's a danger in needing singular greatness out of our leaders. It's been a danger with many a president, including Obama. Thank goodness he was also quite decent and (largely) bound by norms, though certainly not without plenty of room for criticism. Good lord, could you make an argument about the sky being blue? You take an olive branch from me and turn it into something that sounds crappy!? Link to comment
zoogs Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Wait, no! I agreed wholeheartedly with the first part of your post. The whole thing about how there's danger when we glorify the office too much, that's something I've been going on about for a while now -- since the last election cycle, at least. We being on the same side, I didn't even see this as an olive branch. And so my post was not a rebuttal, but a thought to add. 1 Link to comment
ZRod Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Not claiming that this isn't at least partially selective, but here are some numbers to chew on Poverty, weekly earnings, food stamps, home ownership... that all doesn't compute for me with corporate profits and the stock market. Link to comment
RedDenver Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Not claiming that this isn't at least partially selective, but here are some numbers to chew on Poverty, weekly earnings, food stamps, home ownership... that all doesn't compute for me with corporate profits and the stock market. Not sure if you're serious, but I'll answer as if you are: the response is something like, "The rich get richer, and the poor/middle get poorer." Link to comment
knapplc Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 As much as Trump hates Obama, and as much as the Republicans are trying to deface everything Obama did while in office, I doubt that rank-and-file Republican voters could have done anything more helpful to the Obama legacy than to vote for Trump. The past four months have been so damaging to the country, so awful, that by comparison, Obama's presidency is looking like the good old days. 4 Link to comment
ZRod Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 If Trump can make us long for GWB, then Obama could look like the second coming. 4 Link to comment
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