The Republican Utopia

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

MAGA spinning Florida's curriculum on slavery by using the same logic that since some Jews supported Hitler and fought for the Third Reich that Nazism was just fine.  

Well, africans helped white people capture other africans......so......slavery must not have been that bad.

[Ulty]

37 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

This is what black scholars that developed the curriculum are going with.  

Oh. Since you put so much stock into what black scholars say, can you remind us of your views on systemic racism, critical race theory, and the 1619 Project? 

[Dr. Strangelove]

1 hour ago, Ulty said:

so this is really what you're going with?

What is he supposed to do, suddenly realize the person and party he supports is genuinely dangerous, moronic, and downright bad?

 

There isn't any low his preferred party can find that he won't rationalize his support for. 

 

I personally find Conservatives justifying their continued support for the GOP, despite seemly dangerous new lows found daily and evidence of Climate Change ravaging the environment all around them, to be extremely entertaining and funny. 

[Archy1221]

19 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Well, africans helped white people capture other africans......so......slavery must not have been that bad.

So……link to this being in the curriculum or….maybe you just don’t like Florida man bad, who didn’t come up with the curriculum, so gotta rage on everything in Florida, however dishonest it is, to justify the rage machine.   

[Archy1221]

18 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Oh. Since you put so much stock into what black scholars say, can you remind us of your views on systemic racism, critical race theory, and the 1619 Project? 

Sure, 1619 project has been widely panned, by all races.  
Systemic racism definitely happened in the past.  People from all races will agree it isn’t a factor in the US system (though there are still too many racists in all races that make people  assume this is a systemic issue), And people from all races agree that CRT is a turd on a stick for the far left to consume with very little benefit to society.   
 

Since you are here, what specific aspect of the Florida slavery education curriculum are you in disagreement about.  

[Archy1221]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

What is he supposed to do, suddenly realize the person and party he supports is genuinely dangerous, moronic, and downright bad?

 

There isn't any low his preferred party can find that he won't rationalize his support for. 

 

I personally find Conservatives justifying their continued support for the GOP, despite seemly dangerous new lows found daily and evidence of Climate Change ravaging the environment all around them, to be extremely entertaining and funny. 

What specifically do you not agree with on the Florida slavery curriculum?
 

 I get your schtick of copy and paste the above nonsense into every post you make, but this was a specific discussion.  Look forward to your response.  

[BigRedBuster]

6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

So……link to this being in the curriculum or….maybe you just don’t like Florida man bad, who didn’t come up with the curriculum, so gotta rage on everything in Florida, however dishonest it is, to justify the rage machine.   

I'll try to find the twitter thread of the guy who reported on it.

 

But...I find it laughable that you criticize my feelings towards Desantis as "Florida man bad"....when the last guy you fully supported and voted for twice as "Orange man bad".....and look how that's turned out.  Maybe you should listen to other people's opinions on these people.

[ZRod]

18 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Maybe you should listen to other people's opinions on these people.

Why would he do that when this is so much more fun!

 

[Scarlet]

From the above thread

 

"Overall the text isn’t as clownish as that one sentence might suggest. But there still major problems. They tend to be ones of emphasis and omission rather than outright fabrication. I’ll focus on three points.

 

First that line about developing skills isn’t on its own. There’s definitely a focus on discussing the variety of work and trades slaves did. And it’s true. Slaves were engaged in a lot of skilled trades, especially in urban areas. And that may surprise some people. But the overall picture certainly seems geared to deemphasize the backbreaking agricultural labor which was the lot of the vast majority of slaves during the 200 plus years of slavery.

 

Then next two are more significant. A significant part of the curriculum is focused on talking about all the other societies that practiced slavery and other places where slavery was arguably worse. So for instance we learn that Europeans found slavery already in existence in Africa. There is a major part of the curriculum focused on how slavery was arguably worse in the Caribbean islands and in parts of Latin America. These are not false claims in the broadest sense. I’ll note one example. The slave populations in the Caribbean sugar islands were never able to sustain themselves. They required constant importation of new  slaves because mortality was so high. This was true for many reasons, especially the brutal and deadly nature of sugar production. But the upshot of this whole part of the curriculum is definitely to soften the image of North American slavery. Everybody had slavery, the argument goes, and slaves in North America had it better than slaves in other places. To put it in contemporary terms there’s a lot of whataboutism and blame shifting.

 

Finally, the third point is when we get to reconstruction and the return of what was called  “home rule” in the South, which we’d call the Jim Crow system. Or rather we never quite get to them. If you do word searches you’ll find some of the words. But this whole part of the story is pretty radically DE-emphasized. The curriculum notes the first ‘Civil Rights Era" and then the second Civil Rights Era. But if you’re new to the topic you might be scratching your head wondering why the second one was necessary. Needless to say this is a pretty big part of the story, the violent reimposition of white rule in the South and how it was sustained by a system of discriminatory laws and organized violence for between 70 and 90 years depending on one’s definitions and precisely which parts of the country you’re talking about.

 

Again, these topics aren’t totally ignored. The curriculum’s defenders will be able to pull out quotes referencing them to try to refute what I’m saying. But read the curriculum yourself and I don’t think any fair minded reader would be able to dispute these points. These are by no means the only problems with this curriculum. They are just the ones that jumped out to me on my reading. They struck me as the most foundational."

 

[Archy1221]

 

[Archy1221]

 

 

[Archy1221]

https://twitter.com/jeremyredfernfl/status/1683197547634933760?s=46&t=qFbRnd1HnMzJrJ0n6p5Umw

[Archy1221]

https://flvoicenews.com/creators-of-african-american-school-standards-say-guidelines-criticized-without-context/
 

The proposed standards also included identifying African Americans who demonstrated “heroism and patriotism” and those who made “positive contributions” in Florida.

Some examples of those who have demonstrated heroism and patriotism according to the standards included Booker T. Washington, Jesse Owens, Tuskegee Airmen, Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, President Barack Obama, 1st Lt. Vernon Baker, Sgt. 1st Class, and Melvin Morris.

The standards also noted African American who were pioneers in their field, which included former President Barack Obama, Vice President Kamala Harris, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, Justice Clarence Thomas, Representative Shirley Chisholm, Arthur Ashe, and Ronald McNair.

Instruction includes the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping on individual freedoms (ex. the Civil Rights Cases, Black Codes, Jim Crow Laws, lynchings, Columbian Exposition of 1893).

Other instruction includes acts of violence perpetrated against and by African Americans but is not limited to 1906 Atlanta Race Riot, 1919 Washington, D.C. Race Riot, 1920 Ocoee Massacre, 1921 Tulsa Massacre and the 1923 Rosewood Massacre.

[TGHusker]

3 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I personally find Conservatives justifying their continued support for the GOP, despite seemly dangerous new lows found daily and evidence of Climate Change ravaging the environment all around them, to be extremely entertaining and funny. 

Little bit of a broad brush in regards to to conservatives as a whole. There are many of us who tend towards conservative points of view who don't deny climate change  - maybe in today's world we are now moderates.  But yes, there are enough neanderthalic conservatives who have embraced Trump's anti-intellectualism, anti-science "drink bleach to kill covid" type mentality.   

[Dr. Strangelove]

3 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

What specifically do you not agree with on the Florida slavery curriculum?
 

 I get your schtick of copy and paste the above nonsense into every post you make, but this was a specific discussion.  Look forward to your response.  

The reason I bring this up a lot is because history is important. Look, as pointed out, you voted for Trump after glossing over decades of his incompetence and his moronic behavior because he said and did things you liked. You were WARNED, repeatedly, of what his character was and what his presidency would be like. And now he's under multiple criminal indictments and is going down as one of the biggest buffoons in American history. You voted for the guy twice and dismissed his involvement in January 6th by blaming Democrats for breaking him after he lost the 2020 election.

 

And, here we are yet again, repeating history by warning you about DeSantis. He's a buffoon, you're being warned and once again, you're ignoring it. It's obvious to anybody who takes more than a few seconds to look but you can't or won't. 

 

This brings us full circle to somehow defending how the State of Florida is deciding to teach about slavery. It's summed up nicely in @Scarlet's post: the issue is that it focuses on issues that soften and whitewash slavery and omits the portions that don't. Is it historically accurate to say that some slaves used their plantation skills to better their lives? Yes, in much the same way that some Jews were treated well by the Nazi's. But it's stupid to overlook the extremely rare circumstances when that did happen rather than completely focusing on the overwhelming barbarism that occurred in both these instances. There are numerous small but subtle ways the curriculum softens the blow of slavery while still teaching the overall history, and that's exactly the problem.