Immigration Ban

[knapplc]

Just now, Clifford Franklin said:

 

Yep. I know exactly what you mean.

 

This stuff runs fervent through the most influential voices in Republican media, too. The Hannity's and Laura Ingraham's and Rush's of the world. They very consistently set up straw man arguments for their opposition because they can so spectacularly tackle weak arguments that nobody is really making.

The way they twist and distort the actual debate for their audience directly impedes progress on these important issues.

 

And when that's all your audience listens to, it's pretty easy to hoodwink them.

[knapplc]

And while, predictably, Republicans will stoop to use this tragedy as a tool in their political arsenal, it's not being taken well by Ms. Tibbets' family.

 

Spoiler because of NSFW language.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

55 minutes ago, knapplc said:

And while, predictably, Republicans will stoop to use this tragedy as a tool in their political arsenal, it's not being taken well by Ms. Tibbets' family.

 

Spoiler because of NSFW language.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I've seen it going both ways. Not that it's remotely comparable to hoisting her up on a pedestal to demonize immigrants, but the response I've seen from others is that the murderer was employed at the farm of a GOP bigwig in Iowa running for Iowa Secretary of Ag.

 

It just makes me sad people are trying to score political points on this, more than anything. I just wish we could get a bipartisan immigration reform done.

[Fru]

Girl gets murdered by illegal immigrant. GOP response: "WE NEED MORE LAWS TO PROTECT US"

 

Mass shootings in churches, schools, movie theaters, malls, concerts etc. GOP response: "Laws wouldn't have prevented this."

[Fru]

17 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

I've seen it going both ways. Not that it's remotely comparable to hoisting her up on a pedestal to demonize immigrants, but the response I've seen from others is that the murderer was employed at the farm of a GOP bigwig in Iowa running for Iowa Secretary of Ag.

 

It just makes me sad people are trying to score political points on this, more than anything. I just wish we could get a bipartisan immigration reform done.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-undocumented-immigrant-suspect/1060204002/

 

DES MOINES – Cristhian Rivera, the man accused in the death of a 20-year-old University of Iowa student, worked for an Iowa farm owned by the brother of a prominent Iowa Republican. In a statement Tuesday night, Dane Lang, of Yarrabee Farms, said Rivera was an “employee in good standing” and was “shocked to hear” Rivera was implicated in the death of Mollie Tibbetts.

[BIG ERN]

39 minutes ago, Fru said:

Girl gets murdered by illegal immigrant. GOP response: "WE NEED MORE LAWS TO PROTECT US"

 

Mass shootings in churches, schools, movie theaters, malls, concerts etc. GOP response: "Laws wouldn't have prevented this."

What is your stance then? Leave everything how it is and hope that other illegals don't commit crimes? It would be nice if people looked at the term 'illegal' and not as 'mexican' - to me these are two way different subjects that people have sadly intertwined. 

[knapplc]

And, sadly, the White House account is being used to politicize the poor girl's death.

 

 

[Fru]

13 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:

What is your stance then? Leave everything how it is and hope that other illegals don't commit crimes? It would be nice if people looked at the term 'illegal' and not as 'mexican' - to me these are two way different subjects that people have sadly intertwined. 

 

My post wasn’t directed at a specific stance, more on the absurdity of how a political party can shrug at constant mass shootings and say “What can you do?” And when an illegal immigrant murders someone they’re up in arms about introducing new laws. 

 

What is my stance on immigration though? Hard to say. It’s a nuanced, complicated issue. I admittedly have no idea how to begin addressing it. But I believe that what we have now is clearly not working. There needs to be a system in place. Locking kids in cages for purely punitive motives isn’t improving anything. 

 

I have a friend who works at an immigration law firm and it sounds a nightmare of a process for connected and well off people. I can only imagine what it’s like for people with nothing but the clothes on their back. 

[RedDenver]

25 minutes ago, BIG ERN said:

What is your stance then? Leave everything how it is and hope that other illegals don't commit crimes? It would be nice if people looked at the term 'illegal' and not as 'mexican' - to me these are two way different subjects that people have sadly intertwined. 

Legal immigrants and american citizens also commit terrible crimes. How is this different?

[Cdog923]

1 hour ago, Fru said:

Girl gets murdered by illegal immigrant. GOP response: "WE NEED MORE LAWS TO PROTECT US"

 

Mass shootings in churches, schools, movie theaters, malls, concerts etc. GOP response: "Laws wouldn't have prevented this."

 

The cognitive dissonance is breathtaking. 

[BIG ERN]

37 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Legal immigrants and american citizens also commit terrible crimes. How is this different?

 

Simply stating if we kept kids like the one in Brooklyn out, Mollie would be alive, plain and simple. I think kids like him that come through don't have any real connection with family, more prone to a troubled past and less to lose when you don't go the proper route of the immigration process. You cannot pick up and become a person who crosses a border without the authority of the country you are in, regardless of what country that is - you aren't a legal citizen without the due process. 

 

People are going to kill. They have since the start of time and that will never end. It doesn't matter their race or religion. I think the hard part to fathom in this situation is that it was 100% preventable if we didn't let illegals into the United States. Maybe the 'right' way to come over needs some changes, but you can't just show up and expect to have the same rights as a citizen. 

 

With that said I don't feel illegals are any more violent than any US Citizens. I think people see the word 'illegal' and feel that this should have been prevented. 

[knapplc]

It's odd how the arguments to prevent school shootings and murders like that of Mollie Tibbets are nearly identical. 

 

You prevent murders like this one by ending illegal immigration.  You prevent school shootings by banning guns.

 

But if you stamp down on illegal immigration, illegal immigrants will still get in. You can't stop them.  Likewise, if you ban guns, criminals will still get guns. You can't stop that, either.

 

And, just like there are tens of thousands of responsible and good gun owners, there are tens of thousands of good and responsible immigrants - just in Nebraska and Iowa alone. Many of those people are here illegally as well.  It's just that almost none of them commit crimes - just like almost no gun owners commit crimes. 

 

 

[knapplc]

OK.

 

Mollie Tibbetts’ accused killer is in Iowa legally, his lawyer says

[ZRod]

55 minutes ago, knapplc said:

OK.

 

Mollie Tibbetts’ accused killer is in Iowa legally, his lawyer says

That's not a good look if true...

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, BIG ERN said:

With that said I don't feel illegals are any more violent than any US Citizens. I think people see the word 'illegal' and feel that this should have been prevented. 

They are less violent.

 

They commit less crime and less violent crime.

 

More evidence.

 

4 more studies back it up.

 

This is an easy issue to demagogue. There's intensely strong feelings on all sides of the issue. Trump is absolutely going to continue to demagogue the issue for his own benefit just like he has since the day he announced he was running for president. 

 

What we need is elected officials to work on bipartisan immigration reform where everyone from the anti-immigration hawks to the sympathetic pro-immigration people can have some stay, instead of the feckless cowards we've had who refuse to work to fix a broken system.