The Environment

[Archy1221]

7 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

17 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Climate change is not happening was a very common climate denial said often, most recently by the guy you voted for twice. His official stance was "it's a hoax by China".

“Man made climate change”.  Again, you are doing what you claim to hate.  

[Archy1221]

7 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

disparaged Michael because his stance on solar panels is beyond idiotic

So after reading through the article, in your view, What is his stance on solar panels? 

[Archy1221]

7 hours ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

18 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Really? This is your take? You're well aware that humans are responsible for fossil fuel use which leads to carbon emissions, which causes climate change.

Humans use fossil fuels, yes.  Fossil fuels use leads to carbon emissions yes.  Anything else out there that causes carbon emissions OR causes the Earths climate to change.   Ocean water takes a massive amount of heat energy to change Earths surface temp a little bit.    So what do you think is the cause of this sudden massive heat energy currently causing parts of the ocean to warm so much?   Is it The slow steady increase of carbon since records started in the 50’s?  I think not.   So what else that occurs naturally could also be an issue besides “ humans evil, fossil fuels bad”?  

[Archy1221]

Interesting read for those wanting to know more about temperature collection within the US and how it has fallen short of what the standards should be.  
 

https://heartland.org/wp-content/uploads/documents/2022_Surface_Station_Report.pdf

[Scarlet]

God Lord.....heartland.org as source.  

 

Quote

In review, The Heartland Institute’s primary mission is to advocate for corporations and minimal regulations. For example, they have advocated on behalf of the tobacco industry, claiming that “We argue that the public health community exaggerates the (smoking) risks to justify their calls for more regulations on businesses and higher taxes on smokers and that the risk of adverse health effects from second-hand smoke is dramatically less than for active smoking, with many studies finding no adverse health effects at all. These positions are supported by many prominent scientists and virtually all free-market think tanks.” While Heartland may be able to find a few scientists and virtually all free-market think tanks (who aren’t scientists) to claim that second-hand smoke is not very harmful, that goes entirely against the consensus of the science.

 

 

 

Quote

The Heartland Institute is a leading supporter of human-influenced climate change denial, and when it comes to climate change information, they have made numerous false or misleading claims. They have also made false claims when it comes to other political issues. They have failed numerous fact-checks. See below.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heartland-institute/

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Humans use fossil fuels, yes.  Fossil fuels use leads to carbon emissions yes.  Anything else out there that causes carbon emissions OR causes the Earths climate to change.   Ocean water takes a massive amount of heat energy to change Earths surface temp a little bit.    So what do you think is the cause of this sudden massive heat energy currently causing parts of the ocean to warm so much?   Is it The slow steady increase of carbon since records started in the 50’s?  I think not.   So what else that occurs naturally could also be an issue besides “ humans evil, fossil fuels bad”?  

 

It's hardly a strain to imagine that the addition of 2 trillion tons of carbon to the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution would affect the atmosphere and climate. But you know what else emits a lot of CO2? Volcanoes! And they're natural! Just one volcano -- Krakatoa -- put so much debris in the atmosphere in 1883 it actually created a global winter that lasted two years! And that's winter which means cooling, not heating. 

 

But yeah, human-generated carbon still outweighs volcanoes 60:1, and the Earth has been steadily heating up much as climatologists have projected for years, although unfortunately even faster than the models suggested just a decade ago. 

 

Humans evil? That's a value judgement. Simple fact is that humans are the dominant species on earth, consume a vast amount of natural resources (increasingly so as standards of living rise), and have grown from 1.6 billion to 8 billion in population since that Industrial Revolution. It takes a lot of contortion to pretend we aren't massively affecting the global ecosystem. Fossil fuels bad? Another value judgement, but in terms of the economic, political, and environmental consequences of our petroleum dependence, it makes perfect nonpartisan sense to pursue alternatives. I'm happy to thank fossil fuels for all they've provided, and welcome their participation in a lesser role. 

 

You do know that when you say "I think not" the you in question is Archy1221, right? And that other folks know a lot more than you do because that's their job? 

[Archy1221]

20 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's hardly a strain to imagine that the addition of 2 trillion tons of carbon to the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution would affect the atmosphere and climate.

The question is to what extent is that one variable changing the dynamic of a constantly evolving climate.   It’s hardly a strain to imagine other variable are in play that affect the climate.  
 

35 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It takes a lot of contortion to pretend we aren't massively affecting the global ecosystem.

No one here is disputing this so what’s your point with this?

 

37 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

But yeah, human-generated carbon still outweighs volcanoes 60:1, and the Earth has been steadily heating up much as climatologists have projected for years, although unfortunately even faster than the models suggested just a decade ago.

The models have been fairly close to predicting the amount of CO2 in the air so if you are correct that the most current models have been way off in temperature predicting (I’ll have to just take your word for it) what else is at play here then?  
 

So back to my original question, what is causing this massive heat energy to cause the oceans to rise in temp so fast?   All anyone says is man made fossil fuel use.   Volcanoes?  Ehh, not sure what recent eruptions could account for it.   One thought being explored….. What about small, common (in the billions of years of Earths existence timeframe sense) shifts in the inner and outer mantle?  Releasing super heated liquid minerals like Fe deposits to rise above higher than their normal existing levels in the ground. This could possibly have a profound quick affect on ocean water temperatures.  What if the Earth is going through one of these natural cycles that scientist know exist? 

[Dr. Strangelove]

47 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's hardly a strain to imagine that the addition of 2 trillion tons of carbon to the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution would affect the atmosphere and climate. But you know what else emits a lot of CO2? Volcanoes! And they're natural! Just one volcano -- Krakatoa -- put so much debris in the atmosphere in 1883 it actually created a global winter that lasted two years! And that's winter which means cooling, not heating. 

 

But yeah, human-generated carbon still outweighs volcanoes 60:1, and the Earth has been steadily heating up much as climatologists have projected for years, although unfortunately even faster than the models suggested just a decade ago. 

 

Humans evil? That's a value judgement. Simple fact is that humans are the dominant species on earth, consume a vast amount of natural resources (increasingly so as standards of living rise), and have grown from 1.6 billion to 8 billion in population since that Industrial Revolution. It takes a lot of contortion to pretend we aren't massively affecting the global ecosystem. Fossil fuels bad? Another value judgement, but in terms of the economic, political, and environmental consequences of our petroleum dependence, it makes perfect nonpartisan sense to pursue alternatives. I'm happy to thank fossil fuels for all they've provided, and welcome their participation in a lesser role. 

 

You do know that when you say "I think not" the you in question is Archy1221, right? And that other folks know a lot more than you do because that's their job? 

Exactly. 

 

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

So after reading through the article, in your view, What is his stance on solar panels? 

You being intentionally dense is a sight to behold. 

 

I'll leave this here. The collapse in certain areas of the world is extreme and goes beyond what even the most pessimistic climate model predicts. There seems to be some unknown barrier we've crossed, hopefully just temporarily. 

3 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Humans use fossil fuels, yes.  Fossil fuels use leads to carbon emissions yes.  Anything else out there that causes carbon emissions OR causes the Earths climate to change.   Ocean water takes a massive amount of heat energy to change Earths surface temp a little bit.    So what do you think is the cause of this sudden massive heat energy currently causing parts of the ocean to warm so much?   Is it The slow steady increase of carbon since records started in the 50’s?  I think not.   So what else that occurs naturally could also be an issue besides “ humans evil, fossil fuels bad”?  

This is profoundly wrong. But why believe hundreds of scientists, decades of research, and your own eyes when you can just "think not"? 

[Dr. Strangelove]

6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

So back to my original question, what is causing this massive heat energy to cause the oceans to rise in temp so fast?   All anyone says is man made fossil fuel use.   Volcanoes? 

You're going to be absolutely shocked at the answer.

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

You being intentionally dense is a sight to behold. 

You throwing out insults doesn’t answer the question to a statement you were clear on making.   
 

What is his view on solar panels?  Is he for them or against them or agnostic to their use?  Your posts read like you know, so tell us instead of insulting people.  

[Archy1221]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

This is profoundly wrong. But why believe hundreds of scientists, decades of research, and your own eyes when you can just "think not"? 

Parts of the worlds oceans have heated up quite dramatically this year and well outside the norm.   This isn’t in dispute.  So tell us why?  The amount of carbon put into the atmosphere hasn’t changed recently by that much.  It’s all carbon based warming according to you, so why the anomaly in warming ocean temps? 

[JJ Husker]

1 hour ago, Scarlet said:

God Lord.....heartland.org as source.  

 

 

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heartland-institute/

 

 

And that’s where archy gets his “irrefutable” scientific evidence 

 

The curious thing is, actual science is not partisan. Nobody wants climate change to be affected by humans. It would be self serving for all of us if we could just continue doing what we do without needing to change a thing. But where the paths diverge is when some people stick their head up their a$$ and choose (yes choose) to ignore the scientific evidence.

 

I have no idea why other than their media intake is so biased and so partisan that they decide to turn off their brains and become parrots of their preferred talking point memos. It would be sad if it wasn’t so dangerous.

[Archy1221]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

You're going to be absolutely shocked at the answer.

So according to your answer, this years Ocean heating will continue on? Right? The anomaly of this year will happen again next year and the next and the next right.  Because as you linked to, oceans are capturing this heat and it won’t be getting better anytime in the near future.  World Carbon outputs continue to get higher each year.  
 

Why the sudden anomaly this year?  Should be similar to any other temp rise if it’s carbon based warming. 

[Lorewarn]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Why the sudden anomaly this year?  Should be similar to any other temp rise if it’s carbon based warming. 

 

 

Have you ever heard of the phrase 'the straw that broke the camel's back'?

[BigRedBuster]

28 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

The question is to what extent is that one variable changing the dynamic of a constantly evolving climate.   It’s hardly a strain to imagine other variable are in play that affect the climate.

Of course there are other things affecting climate. 
 

I don’t have a problem admitting Humans play a part and if we can limit that to being much less, we should.