2018 mid-term

[BigRedBuster]

9 hours ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

Good.

 

That debt ceiling thing is the biggest, emptiest waste of breath that nonetheless always gets way more attention than it deserves.

 

I agree.  The arguments and debates should be at the time of the budget....not when the bills need to be paid.

[BigRedBuster]

But then.....

 

 

[funhusker]

31 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

But then.....

 

 

I'm all for investment in green energy and rebuilding infrastructure.  I think addressing the needs created by climate change and our failing public works are definitely worthwhile goals.  But so is paying for them.  If they can't "cut" something, raise taxes.  

 

I know government budgets/debts are much more complicated than simple credits and debits.  But instituting a multi-trillion dollar program with no intention of funding it is crazy....

 

I think Claire McCaskill was right about some of these new members.  Their hearts are in the right place, but they are going to be pretty disappointed when they realize what they can actually achieve.  

[Landlord]

31 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I'm all for investment in green energy and rebuilding infrastructure.  I think addressing the needs created by climate change and our failing public works are definitely worthwhile goals. 

 

31 minutes ago, funhusker said:

But instituting a multi-trillion dollar program with no intention of funding it is crazy....

 

It sure sounds crazy, and comes across as crazy, but going forward without taking absolutely drastic and immediate steps - HUGE steps, like, tomorrow - to combat climate change is infinitely more crazy. We are at 11:59 on that doomsday clock. Right now. 

 

 

[funhusker]

7 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

It sure sounds crazy, and comes across as crazy, but going forward without taking absolutely drastic and immediate steps - HUGE steps, like, tomorrow - to combat climate change is infinitely more crazy. We are at 11:59 on that doomsday clock. Right now. 

 

 

And because of that, funds should be raised to pay for it.  Maybe eliminate fossil fuel subsidies and/or increase revenue.  I agree that huge steps should be taken.  

 

Yelling over and over again that we need to do something, isn't doing anything.  Proposing a bill that has zero% chance of passing isn't doing anything.  If we are going to rely on our government to "do something", a framework of legitimate programs and policies need to be fleshed out and funded.  Otherwise, we aren't doing anything.

[RedDenver]

43 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I'm all for investment in green energy and rebuilding infrastructure.  I think addressing the needs created by climate change and our failing public works are definitely worthwhile goals.  But so is paying for them.  If they can't "cut" something, raise taxes.  

 

I know government budgets/debts are much more complicated than simple credits and debits.  But instituting a multi-trillion dollar program with no intention of funding it is crazy....

 

I think Claire McCaskill was right about some of these new members.  Their hearts are in the right place, but they are going to be pretty disappointed when they realize what they can actually achieve.  

The pay-go rule isn't about paying for things and balancing budgets. It's about procedures and stupidity in politics. This rule simply gives Republicans in the House the ammo to shoot down spending, which the Dems are going to stupidly just hand over to them. Notice that this rule wasn't in effect for the Republicans when they were in power. This is another example of why the Dems are bad at politics.

[funhusker]

9 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The pay-go rule isn't about paying for things and balancing budgets. It's about procedures and stupidity in politics. This rule simply gives Republicans in the House the ammo to shoot down spending, which the Dems are going to stupidly just hand over to them. Notice that this rule wasn't in effect for the Republicans when they were in power. This is another example of why the Dems are bad at politics.

I did notice.  And it's a big reason why I don't trust the GOP.

 

I'm for universal healthcare.  I'm for green energy and an aggressive approach to climate change.  I'm for rebuilding our infrastructure.  I'm for a lot of things that cost a lot of money.  I'm also okay for raising taxes and making cuts to pay for them.  I just don't get why Dems think the words "raise taxes" is a dirty word. If we citizens are getting something for our money (like a planet to live on) it should seem like a "steal".  I think most families would be ecstatic to pay $5000 a year in taxes to pay for healthcare instead of the $12000 they pay to private companies in the forms of premiums and deductibles.  

 

American people aren't all dumb.  Lay out the problems.  Lay out the math.  Lay out the benefits.  

 

Maybe I have too much faith in Americans....

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I did notice.  And it's a big reason why I don't trust the GOP.

These types of own-goals are just embarrassing for the Dems. Pelosi needs to be removed from leadership. Sad that only 2 members have the smarts and the integrity to point out how stupid this is.

[Ulty]

11 minutes ago, funhusker said:

 

Maybe I have too much faith in Americans....

 

That's it right there. The number of Americans who think through these issues and vote in the best long-term interest of the country is sadly outnumbered.

[RedDenver]

21 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I'm for universal healthcare.  I'm for green energy and an aggressive approach to climate change.  I'm for rebuilding our infrastructure.  I'm for a lot of things that cost a lot of money.  I'm also okay for raising taxes and making cuts to pay for them.  I just don't get why Dems think the words "raise taxes" is a dirty word. If we citizens are getting something for our money (like a planet to live on) it should seem like a "steal".  I think most families would be ecstatic to pay $5000 a year in taxes to pay for healthcare instead of the $12000 they pay to private companies in the forms of premiums and deductibles.  

 

American people aren't all dumb.  Lay out the problems.  Lay out the math.  Lay out the benefits.  

 

Maybe I have too much faith in Americans....

That's all fine. But the pay-go rule doesn't help with any of that. It simply forces another vote over whether to waive the rule depending on if the CBO says the new bill is estimated to cost more than the proposed cuts and revenue increases and gives the Republicans an additional talking-point about whether the Dems are following their own rule. The bill can be budget-balanced regardless of any pay-go rule - so the only reason to have this rule is if Pelosi and the Dems want another way to prevent spending but only spending by the Dem-controlled House. The Republicans don't have this problem because they don't stupidly handicap themselves.

[Danny Bateman]

7 hours ago, RedDenver said:

That's all fine. But the pay-go rule doesn't help with any of that. It simply forces another vote over whether to waive the rule depending on if the CBO says the new bill is estimated to cost more than the proposed cuts and revenue increases and gives the Republicans an additional talking-point about whether the Dems are following their own rule. The bill can be budget-balanced regardless of any pay-go rule - so the only reason to have this rule is if Pelosi and the Dems want another way to prevent spending but only spending by the Dem-controlled House. The Republicans don't have this problem because they don't stupidly handicap themselves.

 

Long term there's a chance of a payoff here. If we actually are undergoing political realignment, being the party of actual fiscal responsibility instead of just portraying yourself that way like the GOP does could further push suburban Americans further toward the Dems. But if they're just temporarily bailing on the GOP due to Trump, it wouldn't really serve any long-term interest. 

 

Ultimately I think them voting against it and having their voices in Congress is a very good thing. Having more leftists voices in Congress could wind up more like the Parliamentary system  other countries use where Greens constitute their own bloc but not a big enough one to govern without forming a coalition with others. I would love a system like that. Ultimately I'm cool with them pushing the Dems leftward because while I still think America is a rather moderate country, our politics have drifted further right than I'm comfortable with and while the Dems are center-left they're much more center than left at this point.

[schriznoeder]

 

 

[mrandyk]

Please get rid of the electoral college. The Midwestern states have way too much influence on the presidential elections and get more than their fair share of representation in the senate.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

McMullin badly misses the mark on the progressive view of the wealthy.

 

Pointing out that the incredibly wealthy have disproportionate, damaging influence on our politics here is accurate and in no way comparable to the way Trump and his ilk treat Muslims, African Americans, Hispanics and other minorities and immigrants.