The Democrat Utopia

[Ratt Mhule]

Since when did being pro-choice become pro-abortion? I am pro-choice but I am against abortion. If someone doesnt want to have their baby, nobody should be able to force them to. Do I think youre a POS for having an abortion? Hell yes I do but its still your choice. 

 

And speaking for myself, I was blessed to be born into a family with parents who would do anything for me and loved me unconditionally. I would rather be aborted before birth if I was going to be born into a broken household with parents who dont give a s#!t about me. My chances of actually making something of myself in that type of situation go down significantly. But like I said, thats just me speaking for myself. 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

 

No it's not. 

 

With the history in this world of slavery, and genocide; I'd imagine there would be a lot of people that would have argued with you on what makes a definable human. 

 

 

"A [whatever ethnicity] man is not a human" is an opinion, not a scientific fact. That all humans are humans is scientifically quantifiable.  You're basing an argument on the opinion of racists.

 

That a fetus is a human is an opinion, not a scientific fact. Humanity hasn't yet decided when life begins. There are lots of opinions, but as yet, no facts. 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

"A [whatever ethnicity] man is not a human" is an opinion, not a scientific fact. That all humans are humans is scientifically quantifiable.  You're basing an argument on the opinion of racists.

 

That a fetus is a human is an opinion, not a scientific fact. Humanity hasn't yet decided when life begins. There are lots of opinions, but as yet, no facts. 

 

 

I believe it to be sooner, but I would think intellectual minds could agree that life is undeniable when the fetus develops a heartbeat, and nervous system. That happens at 6 weeks. 65% of abortions occur after that threshold. Nearly 50% of abortions occur after the fetus has developed sexual organs. Surely, with our 21st century brains, we can agree that a fetus with a heartbeat, nervous system, and sexual organs proving whether it's a boy or girl, qualifies as a human being.

[MLB 51]

13 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

Since when did being pro-choice become pro-abortion? I am pro-choice but I am against abortion. If someone doesnt want to have their baby, nobody should be able to force them to. Do I think youre a POS for having an abortion? Hell yes I do but its still your choice. 

 

And speaking for myself, I was blessed to be born into a family with parents who would do anything for me and loved me unconditionally. I would rather be aborted before birth if I was going to be born into a broken household with parents who dont give a s#!t about me. My chances of actually making something of myself in that type of situation go down significantly. But like I said, thats just me speaking for myself. 

7

This is my stance as well.

[RedDenver]

2 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I believe it to be sooner, but I would think intellectual minds could agree that life is undeniable when the fetus develops a heartbeat, and nervous system. That happens at 6 weeks. 65% of abortions occur after that threshold. Nearly 50% of abortions occur after the fetus has developed sexual organs. Surely, with our 21st century brains, we can agree that a fetus with a heartbeat, nervous system, and sexual organs proving whether it's a boy or girl, qualifies as a human being.

Except that simply being alive isn't the threshold - it's when does the fetus become a person. And that's not easily defined, which is why there's debate. For me that occurs when they have the ability to form thoughts, so I'd say the threshold is once the fetus has brain waves.

 

However, that still doesn't address the point that there's still the rights of the woman and under what circumstances we as a society should be able to force her to do something. Given the contradiction in the pro-life arguments and I think we need to give people as much personal freedom as reasonable, I remain in the pro-choice group politically.

[B.B. Hemingway]

57 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Except that simply being alive isn't the threshold - it's when does the fetus become a person. And that's not easily defined, which is why there's debate. For me that occurs when they have the ability to form thoughts, so I'd say the threshold is once the fetus has brain waves.

 

However, that still doesn't address the point that there's still the rights of the woman and under what circumstances we as a society should be able to force her to do something. Given the contradiction in the pro-life arguments and I think we need to give people as much personal freedom as reasonable, I remain in the pro-choice group politically.

 

A human fetus, "being alive" isn't good enough for you to not approve of their murders....Interesting. Brain activity begins at around 40-45 days, so around 6 weeks, for what it's worth....

 

We're forced to do things in society that we don't want to do all the time , including father's paying child support for a child they may not want (an example, I'm not against child support). I don't think it's too much to ask "not murdering your baby" gets thrown into the mix. 

 

Also, are we giving fathers a voice in this matter? Doubtful. But what if he identifies as the mother? That'd get interesting on the left, wouldn't it.

 

 

 

[RedDenver]

3 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

A human fetus, "being alive" isn't good enough for you to not approve of their murders....Interesting. Brain activity begins at around 40-45 days, so around 6 weeks, for what it's worth....

 

We're forced to do things in society that we don't want to do all the time , including father's paying child support for a child they may not want (an example, I'm not against child support). I don't think it's too much to ask "not murdering your baby" gets thrown into the mix. 

 

Also, are we giving fathers a voice in this matter? Doubtful. But what if he identifies as the mother? That'd get interesting on the left, wouldn't it.

No, "being alive" is fairly low bar as everything from single cells to plants to insects and animals is alive. And if the pro-life politics were actually about protecting children and not just fetuses, then I'd consider an argument for banning abortion once brain waves were detected. But we can't even feed, cloth, house, and educate the children that are already born, so it's a ridiculous argument to have.

 

We already have laws against murdering babies. Again, not everyone agrees with your definitions.

 

We aren't talking about gender identity just the freedom or lack thereof for the person who is pregnant.

[Ratt Mhule]

18 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

A human fetus, "being alive" isn't good enough for you to not approve of their murders....Interesting. Brain activity begins at around 40-45 days, so around 6 weeks, for what it's worth....

 

We're forced to do things in society that we don't want to do all the time , including father's paying child support for a child they may not want (an example, I'm not against child support). I don't think it's too much to ask "not murdering your baby" gets thrown into the mix. 

 

Also, are we giving fathers a voice in this matter? Doubtful. But what if he identifies as the mother? That'd get interesting on the left, wouldn't it.

 

 

 

 

Youre coming from a loving parents perspective right here. That is admirable ans if youre not a father yet, you will be a great father someday. However, this world is full of evil people and some dont think this way. Some people are selfish. Some are criminals. Some are drug abusers. Some are young and scared and dont really know their options like they should. Some are pressured by their parents and told they cant do it. And some actually have the baby and that baby grows up in a house full of resentment. These people dont think like you and I and it sucks. But thats the reality of the world we live in. We will never understand how certain people can think a certain way. 

[knapplc]

The abortion question is such a drag. I see everyone's point of view and I find it easy to agree with and disagree with each side. I don't want abortion, but I think it should be safely available if necessary. What "necessary" is and when it becomes murder is the problem.

 

The signs you see out in the world, "Abortion: One dead, one wounded" are true, at least from my experience. A couple of close friends had a crazy night many years ago, and the woman got pregnant. They were not going to stay together, they were young & had no plans for a baby, and they got an abortion.  I don't think they saw each other two times after that, and then just went their separate ways, after years of friendship and dancing around the dating question.  I'll never forget the tears on each side, the tears on my side, the conversations about keeping it, letting it up for adoption, the abortion, the secrecy, none of it.  I'd never want anyone to go through that again.

[VectorVictor]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone advocating the abolition of abortion per God's "authority" is supporting a God that, per that religion's historical text:

 

• Murdered millions of people, including innocent children (Noah's Ark)
• Murdered the first born male child of Egyptians (The Jews' Exodus from Egypt), children who also were innocent. 

 

To advocate for the abolition of abortion rights based on the teachings and text of Christianity is, simultaneously, hypocritical and willfully ignorant. 

 

 

[StPaulHusker]

35 minutes ago, VectorVictor said:

I'm still trying to figure out why someone advocating the abolition of abortion per God's "authority" is supporting a God that, per that religion's historical text:

 

• Murdered millions of people, including innocent children (Noah's Ark)
• Murdered the first born male child of Egyptians (The Jews' Exodus from Egypt), children who also were innocent. 

 

To advocate for the abolition of abortion rights based on the teachings and text of Christianity is, simultaneously, hypocritical and willfully ignorant. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure who you are referring to but if it's BB Hemmingway, he has stated that his opinion is not religious based.

[VectorVictor]

3 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

 

I'm not sure who you are referring to but if it's BB Hemmingway, he has stated that his opinion is not religious based.

 

Considering he's regurgitating evangelical talking points almost verbatim and his history in this section of the board, I believe he's being disingenuous in saying that. 

[StPaulHusker]

3 minutes ago, VectorVictor said:

 

Considering he's regurgitating evangelical talking points almost verbatim and his history in this section of the board, I believe he's being disingenuous in saying that. 

If "evangelical talking points" means he has the same opinion as those people as to when something becomes human, that doesn't mean he supports God.  It means he has the same opinion as them.  That's it.

 

 

[ZRod]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

The abortion question is such a drag. I see everyone's point of view and I find it easy to agree with and disagree with each side. I don't want abortion, but I think it should be safely available if necessary. What "necessary" is and when it becomes murder is the problem.

 

The signs you see out in the world, "Abortion: One dead, one wounded" are true, at least from my experience. A couple of close friends had a crazy night many years ago, and the woman got pregnant. They were not going to stay together, they were young & had no plans for a baby, and they got an abortion.  I don't think they saw each other two times after that, and then just went their separate ways, after years of friendship and dancing around the dating question.  I'll never forget the tears on each side, the tears on my side, the conversations about keeping it, letting it up for adoption, the abortion, the secrecy, none of it.  I'd never want anyone to go through that again.

I find it interesting to think about how much of those tears are from the stigmas attached to it, as well as the actions. You hear just as many stories from women who never once regretted it or thought twice about it, and they certainly aren't stone cold killers.

[knapplc]

11 minutes ago, ZRod said:

You hear just as many stories from women who never once regretted it or thought twice about it

 

I don't. Maybe that's because "I had an abortion and I don't care" isn't a popular statement in society today, or maybe because it's not a common belief.

 

I know the woman who runs Lincoln's PP. I'll have to ask her how blase the women who come in for abortions are, on average.  Maybe I'll be surprised.