Russia

[BigRedBuster]

19 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Why do you think "all out war" would occur? 

Because I don't think Ukraine is Putin's ultimate end goal.

 

Right now, we are helping a non-NATO ally fight him and they are holding ground...even though they are having a tough time gaining ground back.  If we just let him take Ukraine, which makes me sick knowing what he would do to the people, he then is emboldened to march farther.  I believe he would ultimately attack a NATO ally and then we are in a really bad war.

 

Of course, the wild card is if he dies...who takes over.  Unfortunately, many times it's someone the same or even worse.

 

I would rather be helping a non-NATO ally fight him, do what it takes to push them back to the original border, then allow Ukraine to join NATO and put up one hell of a defense on that border.

 

Of course, that's going to all be very difficult because we have one party in this country (along with their leader) that is bought and paid for by Putin.

 

The sad thing is, he backed the Hamas attack on Israel so that we would refocus our attention.  Well....it sure seems to be working.

[Gage County]

The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-NATO country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do.

[DevoHusker]

36 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Because I don't think Ukraine is Putin's ultimate end goal.

 

Right now, we are helping a non-NATO ally fight him and they are holding ground...even though they are having a tough time gaining ground back.  If we just let him take Ukraine, which makes me sick knowing what he would do to the people, he then is emboldened to march farther.  I believe he would ultimately attack a NATO ally and then we are in a really bad war.

 

Of course, the wild card is if he dies...who takes over.  Unfortunately, many times it's someone the same or even worse.

 

I would rather be helping a non-NATO ally fight him, do what it takes to push them back to the original border, then allow Ukraine to join NATO and put up one hell of a defense on that border.

 

Of course, that's going to all be very difficult because we have one party in this country (along with their leader) that is bought and paid for by Putin.

 

The sad thing is, he backed the Hamas attack on Israel so that we would refocus our attention.  Well....it sure seems to be working.

 

All right, thanks. 

 

I don't think all of Ukraine was the goal. Putin pushed as far and hard as he could, just in case or by chance he could overrun the entire Country, but got pushed back and stopped at the original goal, which was Luhansk/Donetsk area...and is now waiting for some kind of treaty or agreement. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, teachercd said:

Those Commies, I think, will be gone as we know it in 4-5 years.  They are already little brother status, everyone now knows their military is not what they claim it to be.  I don't think it will be gone as in no longer a country but it will start to change...in 50 years, with some luck and decent leadership, it could be what Poland is today.  

 

With that said, i would also be fine if Ukraine forced them to their knees and they had to cry like b!^@hes. 

 

We saw the footage of young Russians fleeing the country to avoid fighting in Ukraine, and the prospect of a military coup against Putin, but what gets less play is the fact that there's a MAGA component in Russia that firmly backs Putin, buys all the anti-Ukraine propaganda (they're the threat!), and actually worries about Putin going soft. 

 

That being said, 50 years is still pretty skeptical. A pragmatic successor to 71 year old Putin could shift things virtually overnight. 

[teachercd]

2 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

We saw the footage of young Russians fleeing the country to avoid fighting in Ukraine, and the prospect of a military coup against Putin, but what gets less play is the fact that there's a MAGA component in Russia that firmly backs Putin, buys all the anti-Ukraine propaganda (they're the threat!), and actually worries about Putin going soft. 

 

That being said, 50 years is still pretty skeptical. A pragmatic successor to 71 year old Putin could shift things virtually overnight. 

Yeah, 50 years is a really long time.  Hopefully it is much quicker! 

[knapplc]

44 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

I don't think all of Ukraine was the goal. Putin pushed as far and hard as he could, just in case or by chance he could overrun the entire Country, but got pushed back and stopped at the original goal, which was Luhansk/Donetsk area...and is now waiting for some kind of treaty or agreement. 

 

 

Of course it was. That's why they sent that huge force at Kyiv on the first day.

 

It's pretty easy to search their invasion maps and see where they were going. This was a large-scale invasion of the entire country, not just Donetsk & Luhansk. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Just for the record, Putin's Russia ain't commie, it's a kleptocracy. 

[commando]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Just for the record, Putin's Russia ain't commie, it's a kleptocracy. 

same as MAGA

[DevoHusker]

28 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

Of course it was. That's why they sent that huge force at Kyiv on the first day.

 

It's pretty easy to search their invasion maps and see where they were going. This was a large-scale invasion of the entire country, not just Donetsk & Luhansk. 

 

 

 

Thank you for the map and reminder of how it started. I am definitely not a geopolitical maven, so your and others' views could be correct. 

 

I formed my opinion from the 2008 Georgian and 2014 Crimean hostilities...neither of which led to "all out war".

[commando]

4 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Thank you for the map and reminder of how it started. I am definitely not a geopolitical maven, so your and others' views could be correct. 

 

I formed my opinion from the 2008 Georgian and 2014 Crimean hostilities...neither of which led to "all out war".

don't you see the pattern of putin always moving onto his next victim?   

 

[TGHusker]

4 minutes ago, commando said:

don't you see the pattern of putin always moving onto his next victim?   

 

Yes, he wants to get reelected to finish the job - Baltic states  - to create his buffer area from Nato

[DevoHusker]

3 minutes ago, commando said:

don't you see the pattern of putin always moving onto his next victim?   

 

 

I do. 

 

I suppose Russia and Belarus might coordinate to take a run at Lithuania or Latvia? But as Teach mentioned earlier, I don't see Putin trying Poland's hand.

[teachercd]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I do. 

 

I suppose Russia and Belarus might coordinate to take a run at Lithuania or Latvia? But as Teach mentioned earlier, I don't see Putin trying Poland's hand.

They gain nothing from it.  Poland is not scared of Russia anymore, they are no longer the "big brother" that beats up on the little brother.  It would be one thing if Russia had a modern military AND troops that wanted to fight...but they have neither.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

30 minutes ago, commando said:

same as MAGA

 

If you're talking about a right wing faction ginning up a culture war and nationalist grievances to convince average citizens to let the incredibly wealthy pick their pocket and risk their lives, I'd have to say......yes.

 

There's a significant component in every country that simply sides with the strong man. He may be a bully but he's your bully. And might makes right. It's the rightwing version of populism and it never ends well.    

[ZRod]

I think Georgia was more of an Iraq 2003 type thing. They wanted to settle an old grievance from the dissolution of the Soviet Union, so they took the autonomous regions back.

 

With Ukraine the goal has always been the whole country. It's an agriculture, mineral, industrial, and culturally rich country. The secondary goal is to maintain control of the south, thereby control the ports and a large portion of Ukraine's exports.

 

I think if Putin had rolled through Kyiv in a few days like he thought he would then he'd be on to Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria, and eventually Eastern Greece. The ultimate goal is to have direct access to the Mediterranean Sea, so that their warm water ports are no longer at the mercy of Turkey.