Adrian Martinez Medical Procedure

[Enhance]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

If he was seriously injured, there were two guys behind him more than capable of playing.  I don't buy that this was the big reason he had a bad year.

I agree in the sense it's tough to gauge the impact of the injury with the little amount of context we have. His overall situation also (apparently) still made him the best person for the job over Vedral/McCaffrey in the coaches' eyes. However we want to divvy up blame, overall, the product was unacceptable.

 

I remember there was a lot of talk before the season about 2019 being a good gauge for Troy Walters' abilities given the loss of Morgan and the young/unproven talent. Even with Wandale and J.D.'s seasons, I have a hard time grading this position group anywhere above a C+. The development just wasn't there. They can't have another season of WR's failing to create separation and run effective routes. Simultaneously, they can't have another year of AM missing or not seeing those guys when they do get open.

[Redux]

10 minutes ago, ZRod said:

I mean, we're all sick of it, seeing the same thing for 15 or 20 years, but this is a new batch of athletes, a new staff, new schemes. There's going to be growing pains, and deja vu because these aren't the same people. It seems silly to hold them accountable for the sins of past coaches.

 

Adrian played in one less game, had fewer passing attempts, and less weapons around him than his Freshman year, but we leaned on him more as a runner. The dude had more rushing attempts/yards than any other B1G QB. He did ok, but not good enough.

 

I don't disagree that we should be smoking Purdue regularly,  but Adrian didn't play against Indiana and came back from injury for the Purdue game.

 

Stats aside, his decision making was mostly trash.  Very seldomly did I think to myself how wise he looked when a play broke down, or a defense gave a big gaping hole to run through, or when he was met with the choice to stay locked onto his first receiver or take off and run for the first.  The guy, hobbled or not, just did not cut it in clutch time this year.

[Redux]

14 minutes ago, Enhance said:

I agree in the sense it's tough to gauge the impact of the injury with the little amount of context we have. His overall situation also (apparently) still made him the best person for the job over Vedral/McCaffrey in the coaches' eyes. However we want to divvy up blame, overall, the product was unacceptable.

 

I remember there was a lot of talk before the season about 2019 being a good gauge for Troy Walters' abilities given the loss of Morgan and the young/unproven talent. Even with Wandale and J.D.'s seasons, I have a hard time grading this position group anywhere above a C+. The development just wasn't there. They can't have another season of WR's failing to create separation and run effective routes. Simultaneously, they can't have another year of AM missing or not seeing those guys when they do get open.

 

I couldn't understand how nobody consistently set them self apart from the rest of the receiving corp.  JD was the stud, but every week it was someone else trying to play second fiddle and some weeks nobody did.

[kozzman555]

2 hours ago, Redux said:

If he was seriously injured, there were two guys behind him more than capable of playing.  I don't buy that this was the big reason he had a bad year.

 

I call shenanigans on this. We only saw Luke in scripted plays. He hasn’t shown that he knows the passing playbook or can go through his reads well enough to be a better option than Adrian even when injured. 

 

Luke is a heck of a runner, no question, but I don’t think he was ready to step up, knowledge-wise this year. Vedral could have been banged up or not getting game time for a myriad of reasons. We don’t and won’t know for sure either way. 

 

This is really only leaves us with just having to trust that Frost is making the right decisions...you know, as someone who won a championship as a quarterback. Anyone who thinks this program is not in the middle of a multi-year rebuild is fooling themselves. I’ll give Frost the same 3-4 years that I mentally gave Bo, Callahan, and Riley before starting to question their ability to get the job done. Only time will tell

[ZRod]

27 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Stats aside, his decision making was mostly trash.  Very seldomly did I think to myself how wise he looked when a play broke down, or a defense gave a big gaping hole to run through, or when he was met with the choice to stay locked onto his first receiver or take off and run for the first.  The guy, hobbled or not, just did not cut it in clutch time this year.

A very fair criticism, and one I had as well.

 

We saw the same thing with Taylor and Tommy their Sophomore years. We all thought they were coached not to run and stay in the pocket, but the coaches said they weren't. I think it comes from being exposed to the full playbook and trying too hard to play within the system even when it breaks down. Hopefully he'll learn to improvise more often, and start throwing guys open too. The sky is still the limit.

[WyoHusker56]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

A bunch of worn out excuses we have been using for over a decade.  Whether they hold credence or not isn't really the point, somethings gotta give. I don't disagree, but I think he played out of his head most the season.  Slight injury maybe, but he was completely distracted this year.

 

And it was pretty bad considering we are missing a bowl yet again because we couldn't put away Indiana or Purdue.  Never a reason we shouldn't be able to outscore those teams without needing a hail mary to win it.

 

Not sure if you were trying to do this but you can't put missing a bowl entirely on AM. For one, he was out for two of our losses. 

[Redux]

25 minutes ago, kozzman555 said:

 

I call shenanigans on this. We only saw Luke in scripted plays. He hasn’t shown that he knows the passing playbook or can go through his reads well enough to be a better option than Adrian even when injured. 

 

Luke is a heck of a runner, no question, but I don’t think he was ready to step up, knowledge-wise this year. Vedral could have been banged up or not getting game time for a myriad of reasons. We don’t and won’t know for sure either way. 

 

This is really only leaves us with just having to trust that Frost is making the right decisions...you know, as someone who won a championship as a quarterback. Anyone who thinks this program is not in the middle of a multi-year rebuild is fooling themselves. I’ll give Frost the same 3-4 years that I mentally gave Bo, Callahan, and Riley before starting to question their ability to get the job done. Only time will tell

 

....yeah, Adrian did so well in unscripted situations

 

Luke was a hell of a runner BECAUSE he didn't take 10 seconds to get up the courage to do it!  Adrian, all year, waited too long to do it if his receiver was covered.  By the time he did, he got gobbled up.

 

Nobody is questioning his decision making concerning Martinez.  It's hard to bench a starter in favor of a backup.  But if he was hurt, and if he is consistently turning it over or freezing up, which he was, it's not insane to try something different when the entire season is on the line.

 

2 minutes ago, WyoHusker56 said:

 

Not sure if you were trying to do this but you can't put missing a bowl entirely on AM. For one, he was out for two of our losses. 

 

And he was in for 5 of them.  No, I blame Frost and a Chinander.  They could have easily gotten us bowl eligible by coaching the team they had instead of the team they will eventually have.  A bowl was crucial this year.

[WyoHusker56]

2 minutes ago, Redux said:

And he was in for 5 of them

 

He was in for all 5 of the wins too, so he was 5-5. That suggests that if he was in for the two he missed we go 6-6 and get a bowl.

[kozzman555]

11 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

....yeah, Adrian did so well in unscripted situations

 

Luke was a hell of a runner BECAUSE he didn't take 10 seconds to get up the courage to do it!  Adrian, all year, waited too long to do it if his receiver was covered.  By the time he did, he got gobbled up.

 

Nobody is questioning his decision making concerning Martinez.  It's hard to bench a starter in favor of a backup.  But if he was hurt, and if he is consistently turning it over or freezing up, which he was, it's not insane to try something different when the entire season is on the line.

 

 

And he was in for 5 of them.  No, I blame Frost and a Chinander.  They could have easily gotten us bowl eligible by coaching the team they had instead of the team they will eventually have.  A bowl was crucial this year.

 

Again, like Zrod and I said above, we feel that the hesitation came from having the whole playbook to go through, progress through all the diff reads on offense, AND the reads on defense. That’s going to slow you down mentally until you get it.

 

Think back to when you first drove a car of the road. I still remember how overwhelming it was. What’s behind you, in front of you, how fast am I going, what’s to my side, how fast am I going, what did that sign say, how fast am I going, what’s behind me, where’s my turn at, how fast am I going, oh s#!t I need to merge, are there any cars there, how fast am I going, etc. Eventually it slows down and you catch on and can nearly do it on autopilot. Also, these are college players with limited practices and practice time who are still going through college. This isn’t the NFL where football is their full time job. If Adrian doesn’t have an amazing year next year, I’ll lick the bottom of my shoe that I use when I mow the yard full of dog dookie. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

19 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

People are talking about how awful of a year Adrian had, yet he was within less 3 percentage points of completion and the same yards per attempt as Taylor's best, all conference first team season. Far less touchdowns, but that's largely due to playcalling. 

 

I was a big Taylor Martinez fan and always felt bad that his career couldn't match the pre-injury games of his Freshman season. 

 

I was also a big Adrian Martinez fan after his Freshman season, so that's where the similarities begin.

 

Both are legitimate run/pass QBs in systems designed for their skill set. Adrian is the better passer, Taylor the better runner, but both are/were a good enough combo to be a constant threat. Taylor's sophomore slump looked like it came from the coaching staff, which couldn't afford to let him run with abandon after his Freshman injury. Taylor was asked to be more of a game manager, and he responded pretty well, especially in his Junior season.  Adrian Martinez has also had a sophomore slump, and whether it's mental or physical it seemed to mess with his natural instinct. Adrian, Taylor, and for that matter Tommy Armstrong can (and did) put up the greatest offensive numbers in Nebraska history, but still show the kind of poor decision making, playground balling and crucial turnovers that lost games. 

 

I thought Adrian came into the game with a better arm and focus than Taylor and Tommy, which is why his sophomore slump seems a bit too familiar. 

[Enhance]

42 minutes ago, Redux said:

Nobody is questioning his decision making concerning Martinez.  It's hard to bench a starter in favor of a backup.  But if he was hurt, and if he is consistently turning it over or freezing up, which he was, it's not insane to try something different when the entire season is on the line.

I don't really agree or disagree with you here. I just don't think we can say whether it was sane or not. Luke was a true freshman and not all true freshman are created equal. It's very possible the coaches felt he wasn't ready for what they needed. Putting him into bad situations could've been disastrous for his development. And as far as Noah is concerned... his biggest chance to shine this year resulted in going 14 of 23 for 125 yards, no TDs and 3 sacks. He definitely wasn't the only problem at Minnesota, but he didn't show us much either.

[Redux]

32 minutes ago, kozzman555 said:

Again, like Zrod and I said above, we feel that the hesitation came from having the whole playbook to go through, progress through all the diff reads on offense, AND the reads on defense. That’s going to slow you down mentally until you get it.

 

This isn't a run of the mill QB we are talking about.  This kid was a Heisman favorite on a team that won 4 games his first year.  This wasn't just a sophomore slump.  The dude was mentally out of it most the season, I'll keep saying this because it's true.

[Redux]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

I don't really agree or disagree with you here. I just don't think we can say whether it was sane or not. Luke was a true freshman and not all true freshman are created equal. It's very possible the coaches felt he wasn't ready for what they needed. Putting him into bad situations could've been disastrous for his development. And as far as Noah is concerned... his biggest chance to shine this year resulted in going 14 of 23 for 125 yards, no TDs and 3 sacks. He definitely wasn't the only problem at Minnesota, but he didn't show us much either.

 

Agree, Noah hasn't panned out like we and Frost have hoped.  But it's not like he has had much opportunity either.  Luke, for whatever reason, had enough of a different vibe out there that it resulted in positive yards and drives staying alive.  Look at Iowa, he comes in, then a penalty and Adrian trots back out....punt.

[Landlord]

13 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Agree, Noah hasn't panned out like we and Frost have hoped.  But it's not like he has had much opportunity either.  Luke, for whatever reason, had enough of a different vibe out there that it resulted in positive yards and drives staying alive.  Look at Iowa, he comes in, then a penalty and Adrian trots back out....punt.

 

 

 

The Iowa game it seemed like Luke had one single play package. It was the same play both times. Kudos to him for making something out of it, and the staff for throwing in the wrinkle, but it's crazy how others on the board can't see that the reason it was successful was because it was a highly specialized almost trick play. 

 

 

It's like when I was in high school we had a korean foreign exchange student that tried out for football. He was shifty and quick as all get out, but had no natural instinct for how the game was supposed to go. But the coaches needed at least one context where they could give him an opportunity to provide a spark. So we had "Clark Jo Left" and "Clark Jo Right". Those were the only two plays he knew, and it was essentially just a pitch play that would occasionally spring for big yards. Then you had some of the dads asking why that oriental kid isn't the starting runningback

[Hilltop]

Very good point Landlord.  This is lost to the casual fan that doesn't understand what goes into game planning.  Luke looked great because the defense was completely caught off guard on that play.  We tried something similar with Noah but the defense sniffed it out and it didn't work.  I do think Luke provided a "spark" to the team and, at the time, thought he should have been given another series.  That said, I don't question the decision as I am confident that our coaching staff went the route they thought gave us the best chance to win.