The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

Oh, so X and Y intersect at where both countries had 10,000 cases or 100 deaths.

 

Got it.

Correct, and way simpler explanation. 

[Archy1221]

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This isn't aimed at you, because it seems like you have a pretty good grasp on this.  

But, the frustrating thing is that I still hear people poo pooing the numbers because "We do so much more testing than other countries".

 

Yes, I agree test results aren't the best parameter to use.  Hospitalizations and deaths are a much better indication on how we are doing with the pandemic.  But...the people I hear say this, don't care about that.  They just use the testing excuse to not take it seriously.

I hear ya and agree with you. 
 

on the other side, what frustrates me with case counts is people on here and people in the news like Jake Tapper constantly tout “the US has 4% of worlds population and 20% of the worlds cases”.  Same with deaths.  They do that without proper context on testing counts.   
 

These same people also lambast the Trump administration saying we dont test enough, (which may be true) yet don’t compare our testing to EVERY other nation on the planet to show how woeful other industrialized nations are because it would actually make the US and Trump admin look good comparatively so.   

[schriznoeder]

 

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I hear ya and agree with you. 
 

on the other side, what frustrates me with case counts is people on here and people in the news like Jake Tapper constantly tout “the US has 4% of worlds population and 20% of the worlds cases”.  Same with deaths.  They do that without proper context on testing counts.   
 

These same people also lambast the Trump administration saying we dont test enough, (which may be true) yet don’t compare our testing to EVERY other nation on the planet to show how woeful other industrialized nations are because it would actually make the US and Trump admin look good comparatively so.   

Deaths per million population is worth looking at.  We are towards the top of the list on that.  We shouldn't be.

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

Deaths per million population is worth looking at.  We are towards the top of the list on that.  We shouldn't be.

It is if every country counts a Covid death on the death certificate the same way. 

Just now, Archy1221 said:

It is if every country counts a Covid death on the death certificate the same way. 

Otherwise it’s less than helpful

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It is if every country counts a Covid death on the death certificate the same way. 

Otherwise it’s less than helpful

We are capable of understanding comparisons which are not exact or perfect.

[BigRedBuster]

When you have people in the administration with this attitude, you end up with total deaths per million towards the top of the list.

 

Idiot!!!

 

 

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

We are capable of understanding comparisons which are not exact or perfect.

Are we?  Or do News Organizations use those non comparison comparisons to denigrate certain entities.  
 

If the US had 100,000 less or more deaths than currently stated based on how it’s classified, it would make the situation look that much better or worse.  Still bad to have this many people die regardless.  
 

 

[RedDenver]

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Are we?  Or do News Organizations use those non comparison comparisons to denigrate certain entities.  
 

If the US had 100,000 less or more deaths than currently stated based on how it’s classified, it would make the situation look that much better or worse.  Still bad to have this many people die regardless.  
 

 

Yes, we are. It's like how we're capable of comparing the records of football teams despite them not playing the exact same teams under the exact same conditions. We understand it's a comparison and is imperfect.

 

If you want to show evidence of how countries death certificate process differs in a way that makes the comparison a bad one, go ahead. But just saying they aren't exactly the same isn't evidence the comparison is a bad one.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[ZRod]

10 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It is if every country counts a Covid death on the death certificate the same way. 

Otherwise it’s less than helpful

This discussion is fairly pointless. Even states in the US don't count deaths the same, and hospital to hospital it's probably different too. We have pretty significant amount of data which can easily draw trends from and see if things make sense.

 

I mean do we really think Canada is that much different than the US to warrant such a drastic disparity in death toll?

 

Did anybody make this arguments with the flu, SARS, or Ebola?

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Are we?  Or do News Organizations use those non comparison comparisons to denigrate certain entities.  
 

If the US had 100,000 less or more deaths than currently stated based on how it’s classified, it would make the situation look that much better or worse.  Still bad to have this many people die regardless.  
 

 

Hospitalizations are also a good stat to look at.  Our health systems have gone through periods of being overwhelmed.  

[commando]

32 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

When you have people in the administration with this attitude, you end up with total deaths per million towards the top of the list.

 

Idiot!!!

 

 

we have known this for a long time.   but having the admission recorded is nice.   i would think a class action suit should be brought against the people in the administration who advocated for the herd immunity through massive spread of the disease. it would have a good chance of success.    if that kid   who smiled at an indian can get rich as hell for being embarrassed, i would think 300,000 american families have a good case.

[Archy1221]

4 minutes ago, ZRod said:

This discussion is fairly pointless. Even states in the US don't count deaths the same, and hospital to hospital it's probably different too. We have pretty significant amount of data which can easily draw trends from and see if things make sense.

 

I mean do we really think Canada is that much different than the US to warrant such a drastic disparity in death toll?

 

Did anybody make this arguments with the flu, SARS, or Ebola?

It’s made quite often when comparing life expectancy rates across countries because mortality rates are counted differently across countries.  It is one of several things that affects the life expectancy number of a country which makes it difficult to compare life expectancy rates.  Yet people use those flawed numbers to say what country has the best healthcare.  Same thing with Covid.  Country X has 10% less Covid deaths per million so they are doing way better in Covid response than Country Y.  Yet Country X doesn’t count people who died at home and never clinically diagnosed with Covid postmortem as an example.   
 

In the end, it doesn’t matter much because the same amount of people have died however it’s counted which is why it’s dumb to compare the numbers across countries just to dunk on some place. 

[Archy1221]

14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Hospitalizations are also a good stat to look at.  Our health systems have gone through periods of being overwhelmed.  

Yes.  I’ve always thought hospitalizations have been the number to follow most closely.