The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[RedDenver]

34 minutes ago, Undone said:

People don't have the autonomy to decide when they want to leave their houses and congregate?

People also have the autonomy to stick their hand in a lawn mower or drive drunk. I have the autonomy to criticize them for their actions.

[FrantzHardySwag]

33 minutes ago, Undone said:

Not sure if this has been posted here yet or not - Latest CDC report shows that out of the roughly 150,000ish COVID-related deaths, only 6% of those had no other co-morbidities. An average of 2.6 co-morbidities were listed along with COVID-19. The co-morbidities existed alongside things like cancer, diabetes, dementia, Alzheimer's, renal failure, poisoning, intentional harm to self, cardiovascular disease...the list goes on and on.

But you can enter the hospital with 0 co-morbidities and die with multiple. The 6% number shouldn't sway anyones thinking. The people who die with COVID are going to have multiple things happen in the hospital due to COVID (respiratory failure, respiratory distress, pneumonia, renal failure, heart failure, hypertension, blood clots, stroke, myocarditis, etc). Like posted in the other thread, the true number of people who die of COVID alone is 0%, COVID is the causation of XYZ, XYZ ends up killing the patient. 

[Undone]

13 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

But you can enter the hospital with 0 co-morbidities and die with multiple. The 6% number shouldn't sway anyones thinking. The people who die with COVID are going to have multiple things happen in the hospital due to COVID (respiratory failure, respiratory distress, pneumonia, renal failure, heart failure, hypertension, blood clots, stroke, myocarditis, etc). Like posted in the other thread, the true number of people who die of COVID alone is 0%, COVID is the causation of XYZ, XYZ ends up killing the patient. 

 

Agreed, FHS - it doesn't elaborate on how many of those symptoms wind up being caused by COVID. 

 

However, on the flip side many of the things on the list are clearly pre-existing conditions as well.

[Undone]

21 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

People also have the autonomy to stick their hand in a lawn mower or drive drunk. I have the autonomy to criticize them for their actions.

 

Oh, absolutely agree with this. And message board forums like this one honestly are good outlets to espouse such criticism.

 

I think I see a lot of people that want a strong central authority to mandate directive health measures, even by law. That's fine. But there are some logical extensions of that that are directly political - and hopefully we're talking about those specifics as well.

[BigRedBuster]

34 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Explain in detail what you think I'm promoting. I'm reading verbatim from the CDC website. I explained (concisely) what this new data means.

People are trying to use the 6% as proving the death toll from COVID is way less than has been reported.  That seems to be what you are implying here.  I'll let a medical professional explain it to you.

 

 

[FrantzHardySwag]

4 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Agreed, FHS - it doesn't elaborate on how many of those symptoms wind up being caused by COVID. 

 

However, on the flip side many of the things on the list are clearly pre-existing conditions as well.

Going over the CDC data, The top co-morbidities are Pneumonia (68,000), Respiratory Failure (55,000), Hypertension (35,000). Obviously COVID can cause all three of these, but the top 2 are telling, and they're the top 2 by a wide margin. Pneumonia and Respiratory Failure are acute conditions brought on by something - that something being COVID in this scenario. 

 

[Undone]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

People are trying to use the 6% as proving the death toll from COVID is way less than has been reported.  That seems to be what you are implying here.  I'll let a medical professional explain it to you.

 

 

 

The condescension isn't necessary.

 

The last sentence in my original post said this:

 

Quote

"But the more information that comes out, in my personal opinion the overall perceived risk continues to go down."

 

If you disagree with that, that is fine. But that is my analysis.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Undone said:

 

The condescension isn't necessary.

 

The last sentence in my original post said this:

 

 

If you disagree with that, that is fine. But that is my analysis.

There is nothing condescending about my post.

 

And...the CDC information you are trying to use, does not prove your quote about the risk going down.

[Danny Bateman]

15 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Agreed, FHS - it doesn't elaborate on how many of those symptoms wind up being caused by COVID. 

 

However, on the flip side many of the things on the list are clearly pre-existing conditions as well.

 

We should be very careful about conflating preexisting conditions and comorbidities.

 

It's simple logic that a person in poorer general health (i.e., preexisting conditions) are at higher risk from COVID. But the vast majority of things on @FrantzHardySwag's list are health problems secondary to COVID. People don't just live with serious cardiorespiratory or cardiovascular conditions at home until they get COVID, then go to a hospital to die.

[RedDenver]

13 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Oh, absolutely agree with this. And message board forums like this one honestly are good outlets to espouse such criticism.

 

I think I see a lot of people that want a strong central authority to mandate directive health measures, even by law. That's fine. But there are some logical extensions of that that are directly political - and hopefully we're talking about those specifics as well.

Agreed. There are consequences for central authority mandates and for ignoring community spread of a virus. There are no options without consequences.

[admo]

 

On 8/30/2020 at 8:13 AM, BigRedBuster said:

You really don’t understand mask wearing do you?

 

you don’t wear a mask to protect yourself. 

 

 

 

[TGHusker]

It is pretty bad when Fauci has to correct the lying, president we have in the WH who promotes propaganda that is meant to help his own interests.   There always has to be an adult in the room to clear up what trump says or promotes.

 

fauci-debunks-theories

• Quote

   

  • White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci confirmed on Tuesday that more than 180,000 people in the U.S. have died from Covid-19. 
  • Fauci's comments come after some have claimed a new CDC update indicates only 6% of the nation's total reported Covid-19 deaths were actually from the virus, and the remaining percent died of "other serious illnesses." 
  • At least 183,600 people have died from Covid-19 in the U.S. as of Tuesday, accounting for just over 21% of the globe's total reported deaths.

   

   

Quote

 

White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci debunked online theories promoted by President Donald Trump that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has changed its guidance for tallying coronavirus deaths, showing a fraction of total Covid-19 fatalities. 

On Sunday, Twitter removed a post retweeted by Trump that claimed the CDC had "quietly" updated its guidance to indicate only 6% of the country's coronavirus death toll — roughly 9,000 deaths —  was actually caused by the virus

 

Quote

The tweet said the remaining 94% had "other serious illnesses." 

Fauci told the ABC program "Good Morning America" on Tuesday that the CDC guidance, last updated on Aug. 26, indicates that of the people who have died from the virus, "a certain percentage of them had nothing else but just Covid." However, people with underlying illnesses also die from Covid-19, he said.

 

"That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of Covid didn't die of Covid-19. They did," Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told the program. "So the numbers you've been hearing -- there are 180,000-plus deaths -- are real deaths from Covid-19. Let (there) not be any confusion about that." 

"It's not 9,000 deaths from Covid-19, it's 180-plus-thousand deaths," Fauci said.

 

 

 

I wonder if Fauci ever feels like this guy:

 

 

[DevoHusker]

Is it not possible to come up with a new label, or phrase, that would explain the situation?

Something like "the patient's hypertension/diabetes/obesity was exacerbated by contracting Covid 19, and the patient succumbed to the virus' combined effects post infection". 

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

Is it not possible to come up with a new label, or phrase, that would explain the situation?

Something like "the patient's hypertension/diabetes/obesity was exacerbated by contracting Covid 19, and the patient succumbed to the virus' combined effects post infection". 

comorbidity

[DevoHusker]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

comorbidity

 

Thanks Captain Obvious, I would never have guessed. The definition of that term, btw, is the simultaneous presence of two chronic diseases or conditions in a patient. 

 

However, since I only began hearing that term in April, I did some research on it. And come to find out, it does not explain the fact that your obesity and hypertension caused you to perish from a disease that, without obesity and hypertension, you probably would never even have known you were infected.