The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[DevoHusker]

11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Because we want to get back to normal.  

 

We pretty much are...except for the constant bickering between "vaxers" and "no vaxers". It's pretty much been that way around here since last fall. 

Delta put a scare in folks, and a lot of initial foot draggers got the jab, at least in Central NE. Now, unless someone passes a law (not a mandate which is something entirely different mind you) that requires the vaccine or be sent to the Gulag (I joke) we are where we are. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

8 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Informative, thanks.

 

Serious question here, but why now, when there have been more deaths in 2021 than in 2020, does the only answer seem to be "vaccinate or else"? If some of the actions you describe were successful, not just here but across the globe, why is the only measure of success gauged by percentage of population vaccinated, or number of shots in arms?  How about an approach similar to your bold above? I have heard literally zero regarding anything similar proposed.

 

I have mentioned it before, but it would seem that this far into this mess, the folks who are going to take the jab have already done so. 

 

I thinks that's pretty simple, right? A much more virulent strain of the coronavirus spreads across the globe, and 97% of the deaths are among the still considerable number of unvaccinated people.  Also, there aren't more deaths in 2021 than 2020. Not sure where you got that number. 

 

The government and experts aren't calling the shots. The coronavirus is. Mutations were predicted, but no one could know exactly what, when, or where. Let's stop pretending there was a singular correct response to this. 

 

As mentioned, the imperfect but largely successful precautions worked well enough to ease restrictions, and when restrictions were eased, infections increased. It was pretty workable risk management until Delta came through, at which point the advantage of free COVID vaccines become obvious. For whatever reason a large portion of Americans fought the obvious, and COVID deaths continue at a pace they simply should not. Mask mandates returned, and the people who fight them are at highest risk, and slow down the path to herd immunity the rest of us need for True Normal. Many of these decisions have been made by individual businesses, exercising their freedom to decide what's best for their employees and customers. 

 

I'm starting to wonder if some people consider the current mandates to wear a mask at Target and show your vaccination status at live concerts to be the same over-reaching government  "lockdown"  that started the pandemic.

 

 

[DevoHusker]

17 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I thinks that's pretty simple, right? A much more virulent strain of the coronavirus spreads across the globe, and 97% of the deaths are among the still considerable number of unvaccinated people.  Also, there aren't more deaths in 2021 than 2020. Not sure where you got that number. 

 

The government and experts aren't calling the shots. The coronavirus is. Mutations were predicted, but no one could know exactly what, when, or where. Let's stop pretending there was a singular correct response to this. 

 

As mentioned, the imperfect but largely successful precautions worked well enough to ease restrictions, and when restrictions were eased, infections increased. It was pretty workable risk management until Delta came through, at which point the advantage of free COVID vaccines become obvious. For whatever reason a large portion of Americans fought the obvious, and COVID deaths continue at a pace they simply should not. Mask mandates returned, and the people who fight them are at highest risk, and slow down the path to herd immunity the rest of us need for True Normal. Many of these decisions have been made by individual businesses, exercising their freedom to decide what's best for their employees and customers. 

 

I'm starting to wonder if some people consider the current mandates to wear a mask at Target and show your vaccination status at live concerts to be the same over-reaching government  "lockdown"  that started the pandemic.

 

 

 

As of Wednesday, October 6th, 352k in 2020 and 353k in 2021 https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/johns-hopkins-data-more-people-in-u-s-have-died-so-far-this-year-from/  It's not a stat that anyone was wanting to see, regardless. 

 

You're right in that it was much trial and error based on estimates, predictions and prior best practices. I never said that I had a silver bullet, or that anyone else should have. 

 

I agree that it seems to be the same people turning us in the direction of the dead end in the maze. So, why not put our efforts in continuing forward, rather than regressing? At some point, whether it be 62% or 98% vaccinated, we have to stop the back and forth. 

 

 

[Scarlet]

 

[DevoHusker]

11 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

 

Understand...this is an insight into why lots of folks don't believe a f-ing thing that comes out regarding Covid...right?

[commando]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Understand...this is an insight into why lots of folks don't believe a f-ing thing that comes out regarding Covid...right?

it's amazing the crossover of people who won't believe anything about covid and the people who believe everything trump says about the stolen election.

[DevoHusker]

43 minutes ago, commando said:

it's amazing the crossover of people who won't believe anything about covid and the people who believe everything trump says about the stolen election.

It's not amazing at all. Some people are gullible/malleable. It is amazing the amount of people who believe absolutely everything they're told without independent thinking.

[DevoHusker]

1 hour ago, Scarlet said:

 

Odd that this isn't being covered Nationally that I have found...no one else on Twitter either...one would think it would be headline news

[Archy1221]

4 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

 

1) So that would be the specific "expert" you introduced in order to discredit the experts, assuming he was egregiously wrong, which he wasn't. Moving on....

 

2) Yes. That Sweden. The one that was feeling pretty cocky in early Spring 2020 with its open schools and restaurants before suffering its own specific surge, vaulting into the Top Ten of per capita deaths in the world, then admitting it had listened to the wrong "expert" and enacting the more stringent pandemic measures they'd avoided. At the end of the day Sweden's fatality rate remains far higher than fellow Scandinavian countries, merely higher than many other European countries and yes, below the single worst country in Europe, Professor Cherrypicker. For the record, Kansas has racked up more per capita deaths than U.K. 

 

3) Yes, the objective was to avoid overwhelming hospitals. And yes, many states and specific locals were not as affected at the time of the lockdown. Many of them didn't believe COVID was a problem, until it was. And having either flouted or rescinded basic masking and social distancing guidelines (let's face it, these were barely in place and rarely enforced across much of the country) America emerged during Spring Break/Mother's Day to launch a second wave that the experts had predicted if we got cocky too early. When these "unaffected" populations suddenly saw their parents, spouses and friends die, their hospitals over-flow, and states like North Dakota topping the charts, they finally took the precautions seriously, at which point the numbers went back down. See how that works?  

 

4) No one liked the lockdowns, No one wanted the lockdowns. But most countries on earth considered them necessary. We had to go on with our lives and we did, quickly moving out of lockdown into a hybrid of risk that allowed as many businesses as possible to remain open while limiting the kind of spreader events that fueled the original outbreak. The experts advised us on those risks, knowing nothing would be as scientifically effective as a lockdown, but learning and adapting to ways we could best mitigate it. Lockdowns didn't stop wave two or three because we weren't in lockdown. Wave four involved a significantly more powerful variant ripping through a population that had ignored the advice of the experts.

 

Final Score:  Experts = pretty good. You = not so much.

 

1) well it was the authors of the definitive study that brought along the lockdowns, so ya I guess it was that “specific” expert.  But if you would like to go with the CDC we can too.  As their predictive model was only off by approx 1,000,000.  And yes, they were wrong, AS THEY ADMIT THEMSELVES.  Moving on…..

 

2).  So we are talking the Sweden that has a better death per million rate than the UK………..oh, and the Eastern European block countries, Belgium, Italy, Poland, Spain, Portugal, France, and just behind the Swiss.  Yep, lots of Cherries to pick.  
 

3).  So you had a long winded way of telling me that when people got scared of Covid they stopped moving around socially?   Hmmmmm…..Interesting way of saying the mask mandates and shutdowns seem to not actually work and people self mitigating was more effective….. That respiratory viruses as infectious as Covid-19 will continue to do what they do and circulate until vaccines are developed no matter the mitigation measures, as shown by infections rates, IFR and IHR rates pre vaccine roll out.  Keep in mind that many mask mandates were put in place during peak or post peak timeframes.   States with no mask mandates had declines in similar fashion as those with the mandates.

 

4).  Yes, I too agree that Covid-19 has a seasonality aspect to it causing infection waves that move across areas at different times and locking down everything at the same time was pointless (outside of the first 2-3 weeks to figure out the nature of how deadly the disease was) and it’s why we haven’t done it again, and is why the experts haven’t advised it again.  
 

Final Score= Me   Guy 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

Understand...this is an insight into why lots of folks don't believe a f-ing thing that comes out regarding Covid...right?

Please double and triple check whatever Eric says.  He has been shown to give tons of false info over twitter.  And he’s not a Medical Dr. by the way.  

[DevoHusker]

6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Please double and triple check whatever Eric says.  He has been shown to give tons of false info over twitter.  And he’s not a Medical Dr. by the way.  

Thanks, I will do some reading 

[Guy Chamberlin]

17 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

1) well it was the authors of the definitive study that brought along the lockdowns, so ya I guess it was that “specific” expert.  But if you would like to go with the CDC we can too.  As their predictive model was only off by approx 1,000,000.  And yes, they were wrong, AS THEY ADMIT THEMSELVES.  Moving on…..

 

2).  So we are talking the Sweden that has a better death per million rate than the UK………..oh, and the Eastern European block countries, Belgium, Italy, Poland, Spain, Portugal, France, and just behind the Swiss.  Yep, lots of Cherries to pick.  
 

3).  So you had a long winded way of telling me that when people got scared of Covid they stopped moving around socially?   Hmmmmm…..Interesting way of saying the mask mandates and shutdowns seem to not actually work and people self mitigating was more effective….. That respiratory viruses as infectious as Covid-19 will continue to do what they do and circulate until vaccines are developed no matter the mitigation measures, as shown by infections rates, IFR and IHR rates pre vaccine roll out.  Keep in mind that many mask mandates were put in place during peak or post peak timeframes.   States with no mask mandates had declines in similar fashion as those with the mandates.

 

4).  Yes, I too agree that Covid-19 has a seasonality aspect to it causing infection waves that move across areas at different times and locking down everything at the same time was pointless (outside of the first 2-3 weeks to figure out the nature of how deadly the disease was) and it’s why we haven’t done it again, and is why the experts haven’t advised it again.  
 

Final Score= Me   Guy 

 

1) Try responding the the relevant part that several posters have grown exhausted trying to explain to you.

 

2)  I went to the trouble of explaining why your extrapolation missed the entire point. You come back with the same point you missed. Good times

 

3) It was an interesting way of saying it. Also better written, reasoned and researched. Thanks.

 

4) Well.....yeah. It was pretty scary for the first 2-3 weeks, we learned it was very deadly indeed, but we needed to get back to work and by April/May the experts moved from recommending lockdowns to other protocols we could enlist to do as much business as possible. Not because a lockdown wouldn't deny the virus a host and speed it's departure, but because lockdowns are dangerous to economic, mental, and physical health. 

 

Go back to March 2020, President Archy. What would you have down without your hindsight? Which isn't very accurate either. 

[Scarlet]

3 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

Odd that this isn't being covered Nationally that I have found...no one else on Twitter either...one would think it would be headline news

Well this wasn't hard.  It took all of one minute to find.

.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-aerosol-droplets-airborne-evolution/amp

 

Quote

Small aerosol particles spewed while people breathe, talk and sing may contain more coronavirus than larger moisture droplets do. And the coronavirus may be evolving to spread more easily through the air, a new study suggests. But there is also good news: Masks can help.

Quote

The finding is the latest evidence to suggest that COVID-19 is spread mainly through the air in fine droplets that may stay suspended for hours rather than in larger droplets that quickly fall to the ground and contaminate surfaces.

 

Do whatever you want with the information.  I posted it in case anyone cared to reduce their exposure.  

[Scarlet]

5 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

Understand...this is an insight into why lots of folks don't believe a f-ing thing that comes out regarding Covid...right?

Understand...your response to this is a perfect example of people struggling to come to terms with the nebulous nature of our evolving knowledge of the mechanisms of a novel virus and why like-minded people throw up their hands, say "f#&% it" and die...right?  

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

1) Try responding the the relevant part that several posters have grown exhausted trying to explain to you.

Several posters don’t know how to do math.  Sounds like you may be included in that group.  I’ve grown exhausted trying to explain this