The P&R Plague Thread (Covid-19)

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Before we had vaccines? Generations of people died before we reached actual immunity. That's a rather barbaric option in light of modern science, isn't it?

 

 

Ah, you're doing what you do and making this a virtue argument.  Spanish Flu lasted 2 years, and yes killed a lot of people.  But natural immunity was effective enough to end it.  Your point earlier seemed to be that natural immunity isn't immunity, which I think might be the most nonsensical thing I've read in this thread in awhile.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Jason Sitoke said:

you're doing what you do and making this a virtue argument

 

This isn't necessary, and detracts from whatever point you're trying to make. 

 

2 minutes ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Your point earlier seemed to be that natural immunity isn't immunity

 

I showed that one of the leading resources in this field says natural immunity isn't as effective as vaccination. I literally cited UNMC. This isn't "my" point, it's theirs. 

[Jason Sitoke]

5 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I showed that one of the leading resources in this field says natural immunity isn't as effective as vaccination. I literally cited UNMC. This isn't "my" point, it's theirs. 

That doesn't mean natural immunity isn't immunity.  If you were trying to restate that point, you garbled it.

Can you explain why India has a current low case rate, despite 24% of it's population being fully vaccinated at this point?

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Jason Sitoke said:

That doesn't mean natural immunity isn't immunity.  If you were trying to restate that point, you garbled it.

 

OK. Since you're going to parse the hell out of that statement, I retract it. Natural immunity *is* immunity. It's the worst, least effective, most damaging form of immunity.

 

It'll get us to a place where Covid-19 isn't an issue anymore. It'll wreck our economy and kill millions while doing it, but it'll get us there.

 

 

[Jason Sitoke]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

OK. Since you're going to parse the hell out of that statement, I retract it. Natural immunity *is* immunity. It's the worst, least effective, most damaging form of immunity.

 

It'll get us to a place where Covid-19 isn't an issue anymore. It'll wreck our economy and kill millions while doing it, but it'll get us there.

 

 

Or conversely you could say that the vaccines are HIGHLY effective.  The unvaccinated have chosen their path, and making them get vaccinated at this point will not do much to curb this last surge.  Good news is that crappy natural immunity still seems to be effective enough to be driving hospitalizations down significantly in the unvaccinated south.  

[BigRedBuster]

So, I'm having meetings with management as to how we are going to start preparing for this idiotic ETS.  I make it very clear that I'm not judging anyone on their vaccine choice, but this is something that we are going to have to abide by if and when it is started.  I have a woman look at me and say, "I am NOT getting vaccinated.  I like my DNA exactly how it is".

 

Again, if you don't want to get vaccinated, fine.....but....WTF are these people listening to?

[nic]

9 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

So, I'm having meetings with management as to how we are going to start preparing for this idiotic ETS.  I make it very clear that I'm not judging anyone on their vaccine choice, but this is something that we are going to have to abide by if and when it is started.  I have a woman look at me and say, "I am NOT getting vaccinated.  I like my DNA exactly how it is".

 

Again, if you don't want to get vaccinated, fine.....but....WTF are these people listening to?

We are going to lose about 20 out of 100 people. They are going to do nothing until  December 8th and dare the company to let them go. If the company does, every government contract will be adversely affected.

[nic]

Before the court is the petitioners’1 emergency motion to stay enforcement of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration’s November 5, 2021 Emergency Temporary Standard2 (the “Mandate”) pending expedited judicial review.
Because the petitions give cause to believe there are grave statutory and constitutional issues with the Mandate, the Mandate is hereby STAYED pending further action by this court.

 

https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/unpub/21/21-60845.0.pdf

[BigRedBuster]

22 minutes ago, nic said:

Before the court is the petitioners’1 emergency motion to stay enforcement of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration’s November 5, 2021 Emergency Temporary Standard2 (the “Mandate”) pending expedited judicial review.
Because the petitions give cause to believe there are grave statutory and constitutional issues with the Mandate, the Mandate is hereby STAYED pending further action by this court.

 

https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/unpub/21/21-60845.0.pdf

Yeah….that’s a good start.  

[nic]

17 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Yeah….that’s a good start.  

 Taking away livelihood because someone doesn't want a Vax seems extreme to me. Does anyone know if it's popular?

[RedDenver]

11 hours ago, nic said:

 Taking away livelihood because someone doesn't want a Vax seems extreme to me. Does anyone know if it's popular?

It's extreme but this is also an extreme once-in-a-century pandemic. I agree with BRB that this made sense 3-6 months ago during the delta surge but doesn't really make sense anymore. It would make more sense to have this mandate take effect when a local region ran out of hospital beds or something along those lines, where the severity of the disease met the severity of this mandate.

[nic]

14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

It's extreme but this is also an extreme once-in-a-century pandemic. I agree with BRB that this made sense 3-6 months ago during the delta surge but doesn't really make sense anymore. It would make more sense to have this mandate take effect when a local region ran out of hospital beds or something along those lines, where the severity of the disease met the severity of this mandate.

Colorado is surging again. We are on track to have another November like last year.  In my little work bubble, we will have ~20 out of 100 folks potentially let go. The younger people are going to wait until Dec 8th and dare the company to let them go. Some are seeking exemptions. This will be interesting. 

[Archy1221]

9 minutes ago, nic said:

Colorado is surging again. We are on track to have another November like last year.  In my little work bubble, we will have ~20 out of 100 folks potentially let go. The younger people are going to wait until Dec 8th and dare the company to let them go. Some are seeking exemptions. This will be interesting. 

Covid is definitely seasonal 

[Crusader Husker]

I am not sure how this will go?  

 

Here are questions that maybe others have asked and answered.

 

How long does the mandate go?

 

Who determines when this pandemic is over?

 

When does the virus switch over to common cold status?

 

 

[RedDenver]

26 minutes ago, nic said:

Colorado is surging again. We are on track to have another November like last year.  In my little work bubble, we will have ~20 out of 100 folks potentially let go. The younger people are going to wait until Dec 8th and dare the company to let them go. Some are seeking exemptions. This will be interesting. 

Yep, Colorado close to running out of hospital beds between covid, flu, and respiratory surges. Makes not getting the covid vaccine even more irresponsible. If hospitals run out of beds, then I don't really care all that much about unvaccinated folks losing their jobs. I'd be ok with the unvaccinated simply being turned away at hospitals if the beds are full instead.