Biden's America

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

But, there were safety issues at the plant because the bacteria was found there.  It's then the company's job to clean it up and prove to the FDA that it's clean and ready to be open.

Are we to believe that the plant was just magically cleaned the moment Biden called for the DPA and then FDA/Abbott came to the agreement? 

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Since we are using your plant as an explainer for the Abbott case, When has the EPA heard of a complaint about your plant that caused a complete shutdown only to realize your plant wasn’t the actual cause of the issue and how long did it take them to allow your plant to reopen?  That might give us some foresight into how long Abbott plant should have been closed.   

First off, I am not in an industry where people are consuming my product and if that product was contaminated, it would kill them.  

 

I have never had an EPA violation at any of my facilities.

 

Maybe a better example would have been OSHA.  I have had OSHA show up and inspect our facility and find violations.  No, they don't shut the plant down for that.  However, once we are notified, it is our job to fix the problem.  If we don't fix it, we are in major trouble.  It's not OSHA's job to fix the problem and not have me in trouble.  It's OUR job to fix the problem and prove to them it's fixed so no other action is necessary.  

 

In Abbott's situation, it's Abbott's job to clean the plant, prove to FDA it's clean and ask to reopen.

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Are we to believe that the plant was just magically cleaned the moment Biden called for the DPA and then FDA/Abbott came to the agreement? 

Do you have proof that it wasn't?  And, no it doesn't happen magically.  There are actually people who clean plants.

[Archy1221]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

Maybe a better example would have been OSHA.  I have had OSHA show up and inspect our facility and find violations.  No, they don't shut the plant down for that.  However, once we are notified, it is our job to fix the problem.  If we don't fix it, we are in major trouble.  It's not OSHA's job to fix the problem and not have me in trouble.  It's OUR job to fix the problem and prove to them it's fixed so no other action is necessary.  

 

In Abbott's situation, it's Abbott's job to clean the plant, prove to FDA it's clean and ask to reopen.

Ok so let’s work with this using your comparison……OSHA finds a violation that doesn’t severely affect worker safety so they say “keeping doing business but fix your issue or else expect heavy fines”.  Sound pretty close accurate?  
 

if so let’s move to Abbott…..without the four false reports the plant would have not been shutdown because we know there were no product issues.  So that said, the plant was shutdown, an investigation did take place and it was found that the plant did have bacteria in a non production place and never made its way into the production place.  So basically no product safety issues still…so why not do what OSHA would have done?   Keep producing the safe and needed formula, but clean the plant by X date or face severe fines??   
 

By the way, I’ve never said it’s the FDA’s job to fix plant issues.   

[Archy1221]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Do you have proof that it wasn't?  And, no it doesn't happen magically.  There are actually people who clean plants.

Abbott is saying they have have been ready for business prior to  
 

Maybe the FDA should release the timeline of events from the investigation to when the company submitted for reopening?   

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

Abbott is saying they have have been ready for business prior to  
 

Maybe the FDA should release the timeline of events from the investigation to when the company submitted for reopening?   

Maybe we should know that before you claim the FDA screwed up?

[knapplc]

So conservatives want us to believe evil Joe Biden is purposefully hurting himself and his political party by keeping a safe and fully functioning plant shuttered which is causing massive shortages of baby formula which will piss off moms who vote. 

 

And this is the lie they're telling to get us to believe that:

 

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

the plant did have bacteria in a non production place

 

@JJ Husker already explained why this (lie) is irrelevant. The bacteria is in the plant. The plant is shut down. Period. 

 

But here's why we know this is a lie:

 

Quote

The F.D.A. returned to the plant on Jan. 31 and discovered persistent problems, including the presence of cronobacter bacteria near production lines, according to agency records.

 

 

That was posted five pages ago.

 

So not only is it a dumb lie, it's an already debunked lie. Why keep lying?

 

 

 

 

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Abbott is saying they have have been ready for business prior to  

 

You mean the Abbott who was busted lying by the Whistleblower, which prompted the January inspection, which found the bacteria? That Abbott?  

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

So conservatives want us to believe evil Joe Biden is purposefully hurting himself and his political party by keeping a safe and fully functioning plant shuttered which is causing massive shortages of baby formula which will piss off moms who vote. 

 

And this is the lie they're telling to get us to believe that:

 

 

@JJ Husker already explained why this (lie) is irrelevant. The bacteria is in the plant. The plant is shut down. Period. 

 

But here's why we know this is a lie:

 

 

 

That was posted five pages ago.

 

So not only is it a dumb lie, it's an already debunked lie. Why keep lying?

 

 

 

 

Yeah....I knew that was mentioned before by a poster but was not going to search through all these pages to find it.....because @Archy1221 would just ignore it again anyway.

[Archy1221]

6 minutes ago, knapplc said:

So conservatives want us to believe evil Joe Biden is purposefully hurting himself and his political party by keeping a safe and fully functioning plant shuttered which is causing massive shortages of baby formula which will piss off moms who vote. 

 

And this is the lie they're telling to get us to believe that:

 

 

@JJ Husker already explained why this (lie) is irrelevant. The bacteria is in the plant. The plant is shut down. Period. 

 

But here's why we know this is a lie:

 

 

 

That was posted five pages ago.

 

So not only is it a dumb lie, it's an already debunked lie. Why keep lying?

 

 

 

 

Will you be defining what “near” is anytime soon? 
 

https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom/nutrition-health-and-wellness/abbott-update-on-powder-formula-recall.html

While there are actions we need to take to address the FDA observations, it is important to note that no Cronobacter sakazakii or Salmonella was found in any of our testing of products distributed to consumers. Additionally, the unique genetic makeup of the Cronobacter sakazakii microbes found in non-product contact areas at the Sturgis facility did not match the Cronobacter sakazakii microbes from the reported cases. This follows the FDA's removal of the Salmonella case from its investigation earlier this month.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Will you be defining what “near” is anytime soon? 
 

https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom/nutrition-health-and-wellness/abbott-update-on-powder-formula-recall.html

While there are actions we need to take to address the FDA observations, it is important to note that no Cronobacter sakazakii or Salmonella was found in any of our testing of products distributed to consumers. Additionally, the unique genetic makeup of the Cronobacter sakazakii microbes found in non-product contact areas at the Sturgis facility did not match the Cronobacter sakazakii microbes from the reported cases. This follows the FDA's removal of the Salmonella case from its investigation earlier this month.

 

I've already provided that information, and JJ has explained it to you in greater detail. 

 

The funniest part of this sad, embarrassing attempt is that this paragraph doesn't mention anything about proximity. You may as well have quoted a Betty Crocker recipe - it would have been just as relevant to this discussion. 

 

[Archy1221]

34 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

So conservatives want us to believe evil Joe Biden is purposefully hurting himself and his political party by keeping a safe and fully functioning plant shuttered which is causing massive shortages of baby formula which will piss off moms who vote. 

 

Please link to which conservatives you are talking about that said this.   Thanks. 

[Archy1221]

20 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I've already provided that information, and JJ has explained it to you in greater detail. 

 

The funniest part of this sad, embarrassing attempt is that this paragraph doesn't mention anything about proximity. You may as well have quoted a Betty Crocker recipe - it would have been just as relevant to this discussion. 

 

So let’s have a quick discussion on what jj said and your idea of proximity…..

 

1). It was posted that most plants have bacteria in the plant despite best efforts to curtail it and plants cross their fingers it isn’t found upon inspection (my wording may be off a bit but people know where to find the original)

2) so not unusual for bacteria to found in Abbott’s plant per JJ’s claimed experience.  The bigger question would be does it get into the production are and into product.  
3) does that make the case that the production could have kept going while Abbott got its house in order, given the fact that the products were not a cause for concern. 

4) @knapplc claims it was near production but won’t define what near is yet posts about proximity when company says it wasn’t in production.  LOL. I mean I was once NEAR our research lab, but in no way shape or form could I have contaminated it if I had bacteria on me.  

[knapplc]

7 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

4) @knapplc claims it was near production but won’t define what near is yet posts about proximity when company says it wasn’t in production.  LOL. I mean I was once NEAR our research lab, but in no way shape or form could I have contaminated it if I had bacteria on me.  

 

It's obvious you don't know the FDA's guidelines and are too lazy to look them up so you're throwing words at the screen. Do the legwork, show us what the FDA's guidelines are, and you'll have your answer for why they shut the plant down.

 

Because here's the only recap you really need:

 

1) This bacteria kills babies - two are dead, two were sickened.

 

2) This bacteria was found in the Abbott plant after a Whistleblower told on them, and had to do so because the company is lying (and therefore no longer a reputable source no matter how many times you post their propaganda)

 

3) The FDA inspected the plant in late January, found the bacteria, and shut it down. Your obsession with proximity (which comes from the company's PR lies) is irrelevant. In the FDA's opinion, the plant didn't meet guidelines and was shut down.

 

That's it. And it's pretty simple. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

[JJ Husker]

29 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

So let’s have a quick discussion on what jj said and your idea of proximity…..

 

1). It was posted that most plants have bacteria in the plant despite best efforts to curtail it and plants cross their fingers it isn’t found upon inspection (my wording may be off a bit but people know where to find the original)

2) so not unusual for bacteria to found in Abbott’s plant per JJ’s claimed experience.  The bigger question would be does it get into the production are and into product.  
3) does that make the case that the production could have kept going while Abbott got its house in order, given the fact that the products were not a cause for concern. 

4) @knapplc claims it was near production but won’t define what near is yet posts about proximity when company says it wasn’t in production.  LOL. I mean I was once NEAR our research lab, but in no way shape or form could I have contaminated it if I had bacteria on me.  

You’re stretching way too far in your attempt to blame this on Biden or the dems ir the FDA.

 

1- “Near” doesn’t need to be defined. If the FDA discovers it in the plant it doesn’t really matter.

 

2- I’ve never known a food processor to admit fault. It is completely up to them to eliminate the hazard. Period. The government inspectors job is to help assure a clean environment. Period. The government, contrary to your narrative, has nothing to gain by shutting down perfectly capable facilities. Sometimes they’ll get tougher and more belligerent if the company is not remedying problems to their liking but that’s about as far as they’ll go.

 

The problem isn’t you per se but rather that you are once again creating this fantasy where Biden is responsible with absolutely no proof other than relying on the least reliable source of the company claiming they were ready. If they were in fact ready and willing then they would’ve been operating the plant. Clearly there is something else going on but you continue to choose some Q theory of the administration being the problem. It’s laughable and sad.