What is the future of the Republican Party?

[DevoHusker]

2 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

1) English - right, so reading comprehension, the ability to develop sound quotes and proposals, write a resume, are not useful. 

2) There is already no such thing as a 1 size fits all high school education

3) 90% of student who think they are going to return to the farm end up in ag sales, working for local coops etc, not farming and again if you think farming only consists of putting seeds in the ground these days, you are incredibly wrong

4) I'm cool with this as long as everyone who is working a 40 hour week is guaranteed a real living wage, tied to inflation. This can be paid by the employer or through taxes. 

 

Here is MIT's analysis of a living wage in Nebraska

 

Living Wage Calculation for Nebraska

The living wage shown is the hourly rate that an individual in a household must earn to support his or herself and their family. The assumption is the sole provider is working full-time (2080 hours per year). The tool provides information for individuals, and households with one or two working adults and zero to three children. In the case of households with two working adults, all values are per working adult, single or in a family unless otherwise noted.

The state minimum wage is the same for all individuals, regardless of how many dependents they may have. Data are updated annually, in the first quarter of the new year. State minimum wages are determined based on the posted value of the minimum wage as of January one of the coming year (National Conference of State Legislatures, 2019). The poverty rate reflects a person's gross annual income. We have converted it to an hourly wage for the sake of comparison.

For further detail, please reference the technical documentation here.

	1 ADULT				2 ADULTS (1 WORKING)				2 ADULTS (BOTH WORKING)
	0 Children	1 Child	2 Children	3 Children	0 Children	1 Child	2 Children	3 Children	0 Children	1 Child	2 Children	3 Children
Living Wage	$10.96	$24.11	$28.85	$35.71	$18.36	$22.71	$25.27	$28.71	$9.18	$13.40	$15.76	$18.56
Poverty Wage	$6.00	$8.13	$10.25	$12.38	$8.13	$10.25	$12.38	$14.50	$4.06	$5.13	$6.19	$7.25
Minimum Wage	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00	$9.00

Typical Expenses

 

Good info, thanks. 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

1) English - right, so reading comprehension, the ability to develop sound quotes and proposals, write a resume, are not useful. 

2) There is already no such thing as a 1 size fits all high school education

3) 90% of student who think they are going to return to the farm end up in ag sales, working for local coops etc, not farming and again if you think farming only consists of putting seeds in the ground these days, you are incredibly wrong

4) I'm cool with this as long as everyone who is working a 40 hour week is guaranteed a real living wage, tied to inflation. This can be paid by the employer or through taxes. 

 

I feel like you're intentionally reading my suggestions in a poor light, and that's not fair. I am not offering an in-depth analysis of the modern High School curriculum.

 

I am saying that what we teach now isn't suited for every student and doesn't fit their needs, and we can do better by our students. 

 

The last thing I am doing is disrespecting the Ag community or the people who work in it. I grew up in rural Nebraska working farm jobs. I have the utmost respect for the work our Ag sector does. 

[DevoHusker]

25 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

How many people do you actually know like that? If you are washing your hands of those people, especially at 15- 16 years old, you better not complain when they have 10 kids, live below the poverty line and the whole family is utilizing your tax dollars to survive.  

 

Not washing my hands. They have options now, and they are already doing that.

[Born N Bled Red]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

I feel like you're intentionally reading my suggestions in a poor light, and that's not fair. I am not offering an in-depth analysis of the modern High School curriculum.

 

I am saying that what we teach now isn't suited for every student and doesn't fit their needs, and we can do better by our students. 

 

The last thing I am doing is disrespecting the Ag community or the people who work in it. I grew up in rural Nebraska working farm jobs. I have the utmost respect for the work our Ag sector does. 

 

I completely agree with this statement, "what we teach now isn't suited for every student and doesn't fit their needs, and we can do better by our students." - We should fully fund schools and provide them the ability to further tailor educational pathways to student interest. That being said, how many of us are actually doing as adults, what we thought we would be doing at 15-16. 

 

I disagree that allowing students at the age of 15 or 16 decide they are done with education. No one at 15 or 16 has their head screwed on right enough to make such a life changing decision. - IMO all this will do is lead to more people living off the system, not less. 

 

 

[DevoHusker]

24 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

How many people do you think this is going to affect? I'd guess less than 20% of the current High School population fall into this category. 

 

Let's take kids whose last two years in High School are taking required courses and Shop. I'd argue that those kids would be better served - and better educated - going to a trade school at that point. High School Shop teachers do as well as they can in their limited ways, but they can't give the same hands-on training those students would get in a trade school. Just different universes of resources. 

 

And these kids do NOT need to be taking 11th & 12th grade English, or pre-Calc, or any of that stuff. Most kids in High School don't need these courses (especially the English garbage) and instead should be focusing on more practical things like budgets and bookkeeping and things like that.

 

A kid who's going into HVAC or agriculture would be far better served with that kind of education rather than a one-size-fits all generic High School curriculum. 

 

 

Here in Central NE, a lot of kids that fit that 20% (or 25% possibly) are they kids of recent immigrants. Dad and/or mom work hard in the packing house or even two jobs. Kid gets WAY more than he did living in Mexico, Guatemala or El Salvador, and gets used to not having to work for it. Already behind the curve in school, due to social issues and language, they tend to just "hang out" with similar kids and never really get the drive that their parents had. They bounce around for a few years after HS, maybe a few scrapes with the law, and end up at the packing house like their folks. By the time they reach their mid-30s they have kids in HS...but, those kids typically do better. 

 

My point is, whether it is the current system, @funhusker suggestion, or something @Born N Bled Red have in mind, it likely won't matter. This pattern has proliferated for those 20-25% for many many years. 

[Born N Bled Red]

16 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Here in Central NE, a lot of kids that fit that 20% (or 25% possibly) are they kids of recent immigrants. Dad and/or mom work hard in the packing house or even two jobs. Kid gets WAY more than he did living in Mexico, Guatemala or El Salvador, and gets used to not having to work for it. Already behind the curve in school, due to social issues and language, they tend to just "hang out" with similar kids and never really get the drive that their parents had. They bounce around for a few years after HS, maybe a few scrapes with the law, and end up at the packing house like their folks. By the time they reach their mid-30s they have kids in HS...but, those kids typically do better. 

 

My point is, whether it is the current system, @funhusker suggestion, or something you have in mind, it likely won't matter. This pattern has proliferated for those 20-25% for many many years. 

 

I've seen this first hand. I personally dated a girl that fit this exact profile- Asian though, not Hispanic. However, because she completed high school she's now making $25+ an hour working for Wells Fargo. If not for that, she would have ended up another welfare case. Though it took her a while to get there- her education provided her a way out of that life.

 

That said- I know many, many more white kids who are entitled, with a lack of work ethic, drop out of school, drift around their home town, end up on drugs, but refuse to work in a packing house, because they are better than that- and end up popping out 10 kids and milking the system for every dollar they can. 

[RedDenver]

15 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

He seems triggered 

Being triggered is most of Ben Shapiro's schtick.

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

How many people do you actually know like that? If you are washing your hands of those people, especially at 15- 16 years old, you better not complain when they have 10 kids, live below the poverty line and the whole family is utilizing your tax dollars to survive.  

I currently teach middle school, but I have taught HS Industrial Tech classes.  In a class of 18 kids, I'd be comfortable saying there are 1 or 2 of these kids in each class.  They take Small Engines I or Woods I as a senior.  Not because they are interested, if they were they'd have signed up before.  They are taking it to coast out the last of their time in HS.  These kids are also usually performing low in their core classes.

 

We have made strides in our district at least that if registrations are full for intro I.T. classes, the younger kids actually are given priority.  We'd rather have a fresh/soph that "wants" to be there than a senior that is trying to fill an easy schedule.  Wanna take a gander at which students show more effort and which ones tend to be behavior problems?

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Born N Bled Red said:

OK well, let's break down what you said- in rural areas, like most of the Midwest, there is already a lack of education and an incredible amount of poverty. -

Do you have data to prove there is more poverty and a bigger problem with lack of education in the Midwest?  Looking at several sites, it appears that a lot of midwestern states are towards the top of the list in education.

 

LINK

 

LINK

 

LINK

 

As for poverty, there sure seems to be a lot of green in the midwest compared to other areas of the country.

 

LINK

[BigRedBuster]

43 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Here in Central NE, a lot of kids that fit that 20% (or 25% possibly) are they kids of recent immigrants. Dad and/or mom work hard in the packing house or even two jobs. Kid gets WAY more than he did living in Mexico, Guatemala or El Salvador, and gets used to not having to work for it. Already behind the curve in school, due to social issues and language, they tend to just "hang out" with similar kids and never really get the drive that their parents had. They bounce around for a few years after HS, maybe a few scrapes with the law, and end up at the packing house like their folks. By the time they reach their mid-30s they have kids in HS...but, those kids typically do better. 

 

My point is, whether it is the current system, @funhusker suggestion, or something @Born N Bled Red have in mind, it likely won't matter. This pattern has proliferated for those 20-25% for many many years. 

Interesting.  I guess I don't see that in our town which has a lot of hispanic immigrants with children in the school system.  It sure seems like every year, many of the best students in the graduating class are hispanic decent.

 

It seems like around here, the hispanic parents know how hard they had to work to get here and provide for their families that they push their kids to make the best of it.

[Born N Bled Red]

7 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I currently teach middle school, but I have taught HS Industrial Tech classes.  In a class of 18 kids, I'd be comfortable saying there are 1 or 2 of these kids in each class.  They take Small Engines I or Woods I as a senior.  Not because they are interested, if they were they'd have signed up before.  They are taking it to coast out the last of their time in HS.  These kids are also usually performing low in their core classes.

 

We have made strides in our district at least that if registrations are full for intro I.T. classes, the younger kids actually are given priority.  We'd rather have a fresh/soph that "wants" to be there than a senior that is trying to fill an easy schedule.  Wanna take a gander at which students show more effort and which ones tend to be behavior problems?

 

Sure, I know many kids like that as well. I also know high performing kids that did similar- they busted their butt for 3 years and wanted to take a light load and try to enjoy their last year. 

 

Here's and example for you in a class of 30ish students: One of these students started a successful business and employees former classmates, the other works as a laborer, care to guess which is which? 

 

Student 1) GPA somewhere between 4.0 and 3.5, scores 27 on act. Finishes in the top 5ish in the class, took AP classes, earned a significant scholarship, was actively involved in a myriad of extra curricular activates throughout high school.

 

Student 2) Screwed around throughout high school, was known as a student with behavioral problems, barely passed, took every cruise class possible

 

 

9 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Do you have data to prove there is more poverty and a bigger problem with lack of education in the Midwest?  Looking at several sites, it appears that a lot of midwestern states are towards the top of the list in education.

 

LINK

 

LINK

 

LINK

 

As for poverty, there sure seems to be a lot of green in the midwest compared to other areas of the country.

 

LINK

 

Don't have time to get it right now. Notice how I said rural areas though...

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

So, you want more welfare and an uneducated populace. - 

Hey hey.  We agree on something else. 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Born N Bled Red said:

OK well, let's break down what you said- in rural areas, like most of the Midwest, there is already a lack of education and an incredible amount of poverty. - Correlation is not causation, right. At the same time, someone with only a high school diploma, can expect to earn somewhere between Minimum wage and $15 an hour in rural areas. Ok, so there is the tie to education and poverty. Further, the continued lack of education leads to fewer high paying jobs moving to or building in rural areas, as there is an incredible lack of qualified workforce = less opportunity. This cycle continues and reinforces itself, leading to more people on welfare and the need for stronger safety net provisions, not less. 

 

I do agree to the utmost that for most people college is not necessary for their careers. That work and life experience should be valued just as much, if not more so. I know personally of people who dedicated their lives to a profession climbed to the highest level in their profession and in the last 20 years could not attain or maintain that level due to HR personnel looking for a degree before vetting any work history or further qualifications- This is wrong. 

 

That said a better educated populace, especially in this day and age where even success in farming is based on the ability to utilize technology and interpret data, is generally better for society, local economies, and individuals as a whole. - Your suggestion is the opposite of that- would lead to greater disparity between the haves and have nots and further reduce our society to a feudal system. 

Good stuff man.  Heck, some 15,16 yr olds haven’t even hit puberty fully yet and people want them to know what they want to do with their lives? 
so much brain function development happens between 15-20.  Strange that we assume kids have their life plan figured out.  
 

maybe, just maybe, the kid gets that one teacher as a junior that connects with the kid and helps him get his/ her s#!t together.  I bet the teachers on this board see that happen quite often.  I’ve seen it with kids at my children’s schools.   

[Born N Bled Red]

5 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Hey hey.  We agree on something else. 

 

[Born N Bled Red]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Good stuff man.  Heck, some 15,16 yr olds haven’t even hit puberty fully yet and people want them to know what they want to do with their lives? 
so much brain function development happens between 15-20.  Strange that we assume kids have their life plan figured out.  
 

maybe, just maybe, the kid gets that one teacher as a junior that connects with the kid and helps him get his/ her s#!t together.  I bet the teachers on this board see that happen quite often.  I’ve seen it with kids at my children’s schools.