Triaging the QB room

[Mavric]

8 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

There's a huge disconnect between drill work specifically tailored towards mechanical perfection and a game environment where your brain is having to process a million more things and your body resorts to what it wants to do most naturally.

 

That being said, yes throwing motions (and general mechanics) can be changed - nobody has claimed otherwise. Hell look at Aaron Rodgers' college release. For me there's two complimentary ideas; the first is that for every successful fundamental mechanic change there's 50 that never stick, and the second is that when it does stick it's probably as much a byproduct of mental comfort and processing getting much better as it is a specific devotion to trying to retool a throwing motion. 

 

Pretty sure you only need to read this thread to see where people have claimed that throwing motions can't be changed.

[Archy1221]

9 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Pretty sure you only need to read this thread to see where people have claimed that throwing motions can't be changed.

Exactly.  And some were pretty adamant about it too.  

[Archy1221]

3 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It's not like Haarburg is doing a straight drop back and side-arming it into the DL. At least not that I remember. For a tall QB, he still gets passes batted down with conventional mechanics. 

He throws sidearm on almost every pass attempt.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

3 hours ago, ndobney said:

He’s not to be fair

 

To be fair, he had two really bad interceptions and a fumbled snap in less than a quarter yesterday. 

 

Hats off for HH recovering, but a better offense might have gone up by a couple touchdown, like Colorado did. 

[Lorewarn]

25 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Pretty sure you only need to read this thread to see where people have claimed that throwing motions can't be changed.

 

 

Seems abundantly clear the furthest the argument has gotten is that it's usually difficult and rarely successful; not that it's blanket statement impossible.

[Red Five]

4 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I have no science or stats to back this up, but my gut feeling is that Logan Smothers would have been running this offense marginally better than either Haarberg or Sims. 

 

 

2023 stats are very similar (though Smothers has played a much easier schedule)

 

Smothers

57% completion

6.2 yards/att

5 passing TD

2 Int

3.9 yards/rush

6 rushing TDs

QBR 38.5 (110th)

 

Haarberg

51% completions

6.3 yards/att

5 passing TDs

4 Int

5.0 yards/rush

4 rushing TDs

QBR 41.7 (106th)

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

14 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

He throws sidearm on almost every pass attempt.  

 

A low and quick release to be sure, but I'd only call plays like that third and 8 improv to Fidone an actual sidearm.

 

I may have missed the discussion, but my TV showed Haarberg had definitely gone past the line of scrimmage on that throw, but the announcers said nothing and NW never bothered to review. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

He throws sidearm on almost every pass attempt.  

Actually, no.  Watch the long pass to Coleman. He steps into it and it’s not side arm. It’s the shorter passes that he does it on because it looks to me like he thinks he needs to guide it in. 
 

His motion on the long passes actually gives me hope that the shorter passes can be coached to be better. 

[Archy1221]

57 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I may have missed the discussion, but my TV showed Haarberg had definitely gone past the line of scrimmage on that throw, but the announcers said nothing and NW never bothered to review

I thought the same! 

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Actually, no.  Watch the long pass to Coleman. He steps into it and it’s not side arm. It’s the shorter passes that he does it on because it looks to me like he thinks he needs to guide it in.

Actually yes, that’s why I said “almost”. 

[Enhance]

1 hour ago, Lorewarn said:

Seems abundantly clear the furthest the argument has gotten is that it's usually difficult and rarely successful; not that it's blanket statement impossible.

Yeah, I agree. I'm searching the thread and not finding many claims of people saying you explicitly "can't change" a quarterback's mechanics/throwing motion. Maybe I'm missing it.

I know this discussion has happened across a few different threads recently. My recollection of the general narrative is precisely as you put it: it's difficult/challenging, but not impossible.

[Mavric]

46 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Yeah, I agree. I'm searching the thread and not finding many claims of people saying you explicitly "can't change" a quarterback's mechanics/throwing motion. Maybe I'm missing it.

I know this discussion has happened across a few different threads recently. My recollection of the general narrative is precisely as you put it: it's difficult/challenging, but not impossible.

 

My bad.  I thought the QB discussion would be in the QB thread.  But this particular topic is in the Malachi Coleman thread:

 

 

[Enhance]

Ahh there it is.

Yeah, definitely disagree with it "can't be fixed" or "ain't changing" angle.

I do tend to think though it gets tougher and tougher to make changes the older they get. As weird as it is to say, Haarberg isn't a spring chicken. Year three of his collegiate career and all. But, T Martinez improved his overall mechanics and accuracy after he went through his off season QB coaching program.

I wonder if anybody who knows his high school film saw this with regularity. A lot of the highlights show better footwork and throwing motions than some of the stuff he's been doing recently, but, they're also highlights so, by definition, the best of his best.

[ColoradoHusk]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

A low and quick release to be sure, but I'd only call plays like that third and 8 improv to Fidone an actual sidearm.

 

I may have missed the discussion, but my TV showed Haarberg had definitely gone past the line of scrimmage on that throw, but the announcers said nothing and NW never bothered to review. 

The rule is that as long as there is a body part still on the line of scrimmage, he’s technically not across the LOS. Now, it was close, but I think Haarberg kept his back foot/leg along the LOS.  Although I wouldn’t have been surprised if he was penalized on that play. 

[MyBloodIsRed16]

Just now, ColoradoHusk said:

The rule is that as long as there is a body part still on the line of scrimmage, he’s technically not across the LOS. Now, it was close, but I think Haarberg kept his back foot/leg along the LOS.  Although I wouldn’t have been surprised if he was penalized on that play. 

He also crossed it and then backed up. Not sure how that affects the ruling.  But probably wasn't aggregious enough for either side to care 

[Guy Chamberlin]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

The rule is that as long as there is a body part still on the line of scrimmage, he’s technically not across the LOS. Now, it was close, but I think Haarberg kept his back foot/leg along the LOS.  Although I wouldn’t have been surprised if he was penalized on that play. 

 

Ah. Part of him was definitely behind the line, but given that his planted foot was over it I'd have guessed clear penalty.

 

Learn something new every day.