Which team was more talented?

[BigRedBuster]

Suh, Prince, Henery.

 

Those three are better than anyone playing right now.

 

You give Pelini and the 08' team this years schedule and take those 3 guys away and we're 1-2. Give Riley exactly what he has plus those three guys and we're 3-0.

Did you know that three games into 2008?

 

Western Michigan W

San Jose State W

New Mexico State W

 

Probably feeling pretty good about now at 3-0 .....eh??? I would bet that this year's team with these coaches would be 3-0 after that.

The next three games were:

 

Virginia Tech L

Missouri L

Texas Tech L

 

 

Now....sitting in 2008 at 3-3, did you feel any better than we are now at 2-2? If so, why? In those three losses in 2008, we had given up over 41 points and 420 yards per game.

 

Were you feeling like we had HUGE amounts of talent after that?

[huskerfan92]

That 2008 team had a roster with Suh, Hagg, Dennard, and Amukamara. Also had recruiting classes ranked 5th (2005) , 20th (2006), and 13th (2007). I believe that roster had more talent, but it blossomed in 2009

[teachercd]

What is the first rule of holes? When you are in one, stop digging.

[StPaulHusker]

What is the first rule of holes? When you are in one, keep pounding.

FIFY

[teachercd]

 

What is the first rule of holes? When you are in one, keep pounding.

FIFY

 

Ha! That works too!

[The Dude]

How many walk-ons do, say, Ohio State and Alabama take on the road?

[Guy Chamberlin]

Eh, it's close. Let's not pretend there's not talent on this team. And let's not forget that 2008 featured embarrassing blowouts to ranked teams, the defense gave up 350 passing yards to whoever was quarterback for Western Michigan in the home opener, and gave up 28.5 points a game for the season.

 

And uhm.....that 2008 team featured the same players from the single worst defense in Nebraska history. I don't remember thinking we were loaded for talent just waiting to blossom. But apparently that can happen with time and coaching. Let's check back on the Nebraska defense in a few games.

 

Riley would probably take the purer-passing Ganz over Armstrong. But I wouldn't guarantee it. Ganz had a chance to have a Senior season. Tommy's three games into a Junior season, and seemingly getting better. Let's not pretend Ganz didn't throw his share of ill-timed interceptions. I'd be fine with the receiving corps of either team, but lean towards the guys we have right now. Who wouldn't want Roy Helu? But I'll take Newby over Marlon Lucky any day.

 

This is all kinda pointless and unsupportable anyway. You can have solid talent at 18 different positions, but a weak link in the offensive line, two substandard linebackers and a DB who can constantly be exploited, and all that other talent can't spackle over it. Offenses that have to crawl out of hole created by the defense don't get to call their shots. An injury or two can screw up all your plans. There is nothing obvious or wildly conclusive comparing '08 to '15 talent.

 

And when you see inconsistency between games, and quarters, it's not so much a talent issue as a mindset issue. I'm planning to wait until the end of the season to pick between this and the '08 team.

 

But I'm already betting the 2016 team will be better.

 

I guess no one is going to argue that Tom Osborne had a lot of talent, but by his own admission, Osborne didn't have enough defensive speed to compete at the highest levels of college football in 1990. So he recruited specifically for defensive speed.

 

I know I just made the argument for coaching and mindset, but speed kills and we could use more of it.

[huskernation13]

The 2008 roster had 21 players that either were, or are on NFL rosters, plus Ganz Swift and Peterson.

[RADAR]

Apparently we got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more talented in the last 11 minutes of this game.

NO

[RADAR]

Put Suh, Hagg, Dennard and Prince with the 2015 offense and this is a formidable team.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Put Suh, Hagg, Dennard and Prince with the 2015 offense and this is a formidable team.

I'd probably put them on defense instead, but even there they could only do so much if their supporting cast is substandard. The opposing offense just works the other side, runs to the opposite end of Suh or exploits a guy like Davie. Nothing Prince Akamura could do about that.

 

The football analysts and draft prognosticators have been calling Vincent Valentine and Malik Collins one of the best DL duos in the country, with Collins already slated as a first-rounder, so there's that.

 

We have a young secondary, and more than one of them might never be good. That's how a team with winning talent gets off to a 1-2 start. I'm still not convinced our OL is that bad. Husker Nation is just crabby right now.

[Blackshirt316]

 

 

Suh, Prince, Henery.

 

Those three are better than anyone playing right now.

 

You give Pelini and the 08' team this years schedule and take those 3 guys away and we're 1-2. Give Riley exactly what he has plus those three guys and we're 3-0.

Did you know that three games into 2008?

 

Western Michigan W

San Jose State W

New Mexico State W

 

Probably feeling pretty good about now at 3-0 .....eh??? I would bet that this year's team with these coaches would be 3-0 after that.

The next three games were:

 

Virginia Tech L

Missouri L

Texas Tech L

 

 

Now....sitting in 2008 at 3-3, did you feel any better than we are now at 2-2? If so, why? In those three losses in 2008, we had given up over 41 points and 420 yards per game.

 

Were you feeling like we had HUGE amounts of talent after that?

Actually I feel better right now than I did then and I felt pretty good then - expecially after the Missouri game.

 

I absolutely loved what I saw defensively in that game even though the score didn't reflect it. You could see what could be coming evetually.

 

Pelini's problem wasn't scheme. Contrary to popular belief around here the scheme was pretty great. The problem with it was that it requires good onfield comunication of offensive personel groups and precice understanding of what adjustments to do against that grouping.

 

That requires coaches that not only understand the system but know it well enough to teach it easily.. When we had Bo, Carl and Marvin we had that.. once we lost Carl and Marvin and Bo started focusing more on overall team than defense we had a revolving door of assistants that barely got a good enough understanding of the entire concept to teach it well before poof they were gone and the process started all over with a new guy.

 

I also really like where we are headed offensively under Riley. Pass game is solid and I absolutely love some of our running game play concepts we've run thus far under this staff and think we will have a very good run game soon even if it may not look like it numbers wise yet. That kickout counter we run with the TE is a thing of beauty.

 

And as long as our key staff stay in place it will only get better. This isn't Billy C and his 400 play playbook. This is much more of a do a few things extremely well and be able to do them out of multiple looks style of system. The longer these guys practice it the better it's going to be.

 

Where I am more excited now than I was then is that I like our D better now under Banker than I liked our offense under Watson. Mostly because I think Banker is a better coach than Watson with a more flexible system and once guys start getting their leverages right and stop biting on simple fakes our defense will be nearly as good in this conference as Bo's was in the B12.

 

 

None of that changes the fact that an automatic kicker, a lockdown corner and a defensive lineman with great speed and the ability to not just eat double teams but dominate regardless of them wouldn't completely change this team and it would do it faster than Bo's scheme allowed.

 

Also fwiw, imo you give either Bo or Riley either of these teams with the 2008 schedule and no matter the combo you use you get a 3-3 record six games in.

 

The difference in all of this? I can pretty much guarantee that if you give Riley last years team with last years schedule 7 years into his time here he sure as hell does better than 9-4. Pelini is a really good coach but an absolutely horrible manager.. Riley is a good coach but a far, far better manager. (and Langsdorf's mind is about as good offensively as Pelini's is defensively)

 

I'll take the 2nd every day over the first if it's a choice between the two.

 

My expectation is that Riley does well enough that eventually when we make our next hire we get both.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Suh, Prince, Henery.

 

Those three are better than anyone playing right now.

 

You give Pelini and the 08' team this years schedule and take those 3 guys away and we're 1-2. Give Riley exactly what he has plus those three guys and we're 3-0.

Did you know that three games into 2008?

 

Western Michigan W

San Jose State W

New Mexico State W

 

Probably feeling pretty good about now at 3-0 .....eh??? I would bet that this year's team with these coaches would be 3-0 after that.

The next three games were:

 

Virginia Tech L

Missouri L

Texas Tech L

 

 

Now....sitting in 2008 at 3-3, did you feel any better than we are now at 2-2? If so, why? In those three losses in 2008, we had given up over 41 points and 420 yards per game.

 

Were you feeling like we had HUGE amounts of talent after that?

Actually I feel better right now than I did then and I felt pretty good then - expecially after the Missouri game.

 

I absolutely loved what I saw defensively in that game even though the score didn't reflect it. You could see what could be coming evetually.

 

Pelini's problem wasn't scheme. Contrary to popular belief around here the scheme was pretty great. The problem with it was that it requires good onfield comunication of offensive personel groups and precice understanding of what adjustments to do against that grouping.

 

That requires coaches that not only understand the system but know it well enough to teach it easily.. When we had Bo, Carl and Marvin we had that.. once we lost Carl and Marvin and Bo started focusing more on overall team than defense we had a revolving door of assistants that barely got a good enough understanding of the entire concept to teach it well before poof they were gone and the process started all over with a new guy.

 

I also really like where we are headed offensively under Riley. Pass game is solid and I absolutely love some of our running game play concepts we've run thus far under this staff and think we will have a very good run game soon even if it may not look like it numbers wise yet. That kickout counter we run with the TE is a thing of beauty.

 

And as long as our key staff stay in place it will only get better. This isn't Billy C and his 400 play playbook. This is much more of a do a few things extremely well and be able to do them out of multiple looks style of system. The longer these guys practice it the better it's going to be.

 

Where I am more excited now than I was then is that I like our D better now under Banker than I liked our offense under Watson. Mostly because I think Banker is a better coach than Watson with a more flexible system and once guys start getting their leverages right and stop biting on simple fakes our defense will be nearly as good in this conference as Bo's was in the B12.

 

 

None of that changes the fact that an automatic kicker, a lockdown corner and a defensive lineman with great speed and the ability to not just eat double teams but dominate regardless of them wouldn't completely change this team and it would do it faster than Bo's scheme allowed.

 

Also fwiw, imo you give either Bo or Riley either of these teams with the 2008 schedule and no matter the combo you use you get a 3-3 record six games in.

 

The difference in all of this? I can pretty much guarantee that if you give Riley last years team with last years schedule 7 years into his time here he sure as hell does better than 9-4. Pelini is a really good coach but an absolutely horrible manager.. Riley is a good coach but a far, far better manager. (and Langsdorf's mind is about as good offensively as Pelini's is defensively)

 

I'll take the 2nd every day over the first if it's a choice between the two.

 

My expectation is that Riley does well enough that eventually when we make our next hire we get both.

 

Good post and I can't disagree with much at all.

 

My only point is that people are trying to compare talent on the 2008 team with what we have seen for 3 games in 2015. Well, we know how the careers of the 2008 players ended up and our views of them are skewed by the end result in 2009 and 2010. Well...at this point in the 2008 season, I'm pretty sure none of us were confident we had so many NFL players on the defense.

[swmohusker]

Suh and Prince absolutely on 2008 big edge but Colllns and VV would make up for having just 1 stud. DL is a wash on talent

 

LB I would have to say 2015 is more talented. We had Holt, Glenn (who moved to LB from RB and Dillard who was in the doghouse i believe. Young, Bando, Rose are 3 solid LB's, they just haven't played up to par yet.

 

Secondary- I would say a push again bc that 2008 team got so much better as the year went along bc the scheme started to click. I think if we put our backfield with a similar scheme i think they would lock people down.

 

hard to compare talent but if you put us in a base 4-3 alignment I would take this years defense. In our Nickel packages I think the 08 defense has the edge.

 

Offensively it is about even. I like tommy more than joe, RB's stables are pretty even, WR's I would take this years group in a heartbeat, Oline i would give the edge to 2008.

 

Intangibles- 2008 team was a hurt puppy that had been kicked all over the field in 07 and broke about every bad record you could the prior year. 2015 was a team a few plays away from being an 11 win team and could be torn from coaching allegiance. I would give the 2015 team the edge here bc in 08 husker nation had no idea how long that embarrassing 2007 would last.

[TGHusker]

 

 

 

We don't have anywhere near the talent on this team that we had in 2008.

.... on defense. There was not much for offensive talent on the 08 team.

 

Joe Ganz

Roy Helu

Marlon Lucky

Quentin Castille

Meno Holt

Nate Swift

Todd Peterson

Mike McNeill

 

 

RB is the only spot that has noticeably more talent. Ganz may have a slight edge over TA in terms of talent but not by a lot. I love the Swift-Peterson-McNeill trio but there is no way they are more talented than Westerkamp-DPE-Carter.

 

Don't forget that the team also had SUH - he was becoming the beast that he was in 2009.