Gun Control

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

While I appreciate that you were talking about mass shootings, lorewarn and I were having a general gun discussion and deterrents to illegal ownership and  giving our thoughts about it which is what Buster replied to.  

I understand that. I'm pointing out that mass shooters are a relevant part of the discussion and shouldn't be ignored. And Buster is correct that these mass shooters tend to want to die, which makes punishments as a deterrence extremely difficult or impossible.

[Archy1221]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I understand that. I'm pointing out that mass shooters are a relevant part of the discussion and shouldn't be ignored. And Buster is correct that these mass shooters tend to want to die, which makes punishments as a deterrence extremely difficult or impossible.

I don’t doubt that Buster is correct on mass shooters having no deterrent.  They commit those crimes knowing they will die.  The ONLY deterrent for them is catching them beforehand and/or getting gun access away while they get mental help.  Even that doesn’t work sometimes if they are dead set on killing someone

[BigRedBuster]

14 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

While I appreciate that you were talking about mass shootings, lorewarn and I were having a general gun discussion and deterrents to illegal ownership and  giving our thoughts about it which is what Buster replied to.  
 

 

 

And, I’m fine with trying tougher punishment. I’m just not convinced it will be the deterrent you think. 
 

A big problem with the crime is drug use. People are on drugs, they can’t hold a job. They need drugs, they hold up a gas station to get the money for the drugs. 
 

Thry are thinking about the drugs…..not the possible punishment. 

[Archy1221]

24 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

We're talking about mass shootings, particularly at schools since it's become extremely common. That's a relevant example that we need to deal with.

If the goal is to tackle gun deaths, wouldn’t you want to start by tackling the greatest source of the issue?  Mass school shootings are abhorrent but represent an extremely small number of gun deaths in a given year.  Those deaths are terrible and solitons need to be looked for but mass shootings represent about 500 out of the 19,000 gun related  murders each year.  School shooting are a small portion of the 500.   And it’s very very hard to stop that type of motivated shooter outside of catching their mistake beforehand.
 

Saying you don’t want to make severe penalties to maybe help stop some of the 18,800 murders a year that aren’t school shootings because those shooters don’t care about deterrent penalties is not seeing the forest through the trees.  

[Archy1221]

10 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

And, I’m fine with trying tougher punishment. I’m just not convinced it will be the deterrent you think. 
 

A big problem with the crime is drug use. People are on drugs, they can’t hold a job. They need drugs, they hold up a gas station to get the money for the drugs. 
 

Thry are thinking about the drugs…..not the possible punishment. 

I absolutely agree that drugs play a role and it’s a reason why people are insane when they want to decriminalize hard drugs.  
 

it also gives a quality reason to beef up boarder security to levels beyond what’s never seen before.  The lives lost to drugs are way more than lives lost to guns 

[BigRedBuster]

16 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I absolutely agree that drugs play a role and it’s a reason why people are insane when they want to decriminalize hard drugs.  
 

it also gives a quality reason to beef up boarder security to levels beyond what’s never seen before.  The lives lost to drugs are way more than lives lost to guns 

You do realize that the vast majority of illegal drugs aren’t brought in from Mexico by illegal immigrants, right?

[JJ Husker]

52 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I'm going to stick with your previous post, which revealed that you do indeed have the capacity to consider the views of others, find empathy for those with different paths, and evolve your truths as the data and experience changes. I'm glad you stopped by the Politics & Religion forum and used the feedback to learn and grow. 

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

You do realize that the vast majority of illegal drugs aren’t brought in from Mexico by illegal immigrants, right?

Yes I do realize the vast majority come through the southern border and that I made no distinction on who or how they got brought in, or through which port or crossing right?  I did imply that what we are currently doing is not enough and not working which is why more resources need poured into border security. All of which is factual. 
 

But that discussion can be had elsewhere 

[Decoy73]

37 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

And it’s very very hard to stop that type of motivated shooter outside of catching their mistake beforehand.

We could make it more difficult for them to get their tools.  It's why they go buy an AR.  It's designed as an efficient military grade killing tool.  Pistols, shotguns--way more difficult if the targets are moving or at distance.  But when we do nothing, like we've been doing, you are right.  It is very hard to stop them. 

[suh_fan93]

 

[BigRedBuster]

41 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Yes I do realize the vast majority come through the southern border and that I made no distinction on who or how they got brought in, or through which port or crossing right?  I did imply that what we are currently doing is not enough and not working which is why more resources need poured into border security. All of which is factual. 
 

But that discussion can be had elsewhere 

Ok….just checking. Because Republicans usually mean they want the wall finished when that’s not how the drugs come over. 

[BigRedBuster]

Stupid. 
 

 

[Lorewarn]

2 hours ago, DefenderAO said:

Morality doesn't change nor does truth.  It's a flag-in-the-wind concept.  If you have moving truth and morality targets, what is the definition of right or wrong?  It can all sway, move, change.  

 

 

 

You might be on to something here if morality and truth and right and wrong haven't been swaying, moving, changing and progressing throughout the entirety of human history.

 

But they have, so.. 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Decoy73 said:

We could make it more difficult for them to get their tools.  It's why they go buy an AR.  It's designed as an efficient military grade killing tool.  Pistols, shotguns--way more difficult if the targets are moving or at distance.  But when we do nothing, like we've been doing, you are right.  It is very hard to stop them. 

I agree with your first sentence for sure 

[suh_fan93]