Russia

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

From the link:

Ukraine has used face scans to identify 582 corpses and inform their families. But some worry the "psychological warfare" tactic could backfire: “If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric'"

 

https://t.co/B3Ztf2albb

Agree it would be barbaric if the invade Ukraine then send mothers pictures of their dead sons after they invaded and killed them. 
 

The Russian soldiers would be safe and alive if they were still in Russia. 
 

I get what you’re saying and it’s a valid opinion. I just happen to disagree. Ukraine is desperate and I don’t blame them for trying everything they can to get Russia to stop and leave. 

[Scarlet]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

From the link:

Ukraine has used face scans to identify 582 corpses and inform their families. But some worry the "psychological warfare" tactic could backfire: “If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric'"

 

https://t.co/B3Ztf2albb

Then what?  The Ukrainian mothers might band together to stop the war?  Oh wait...the Ukrainians didn't start the war.

 

Here's some background on why they Ukrainians might be trying this tactic.  

 

Quote

"Maybe they can help me. Someone's got to help me," said Alla.

 

"They" are the local branch of the Committee of Soldiers' Mothers, a feisty bunch of middle-aged women who are the most formidable opponents of Russia's warmongers, a thorn in the flesh of the Kremlin spin doctors and military spokesmen who daily claim that the Chechnya war is going famously.

 

Galvanized into action by the routine savagery meted out to their largely conscript sons in an army notorious for its brutality, the mothers' committee has developed into a highly effective independent grassroots organisation that stands out in a culture struggling to develop civil society projects.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2000/feb/03/chechnya.iantraynor1

[DevoHusker]

So y'all would have been fine with this tactic, and thankful for the notification, if you received such photos after the US invaded Iraq...or Afghanistan...or Nicaragua...or Vietnam...or, well you get the picture.

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

I don't believe I said this, or alluded to it? As to Russian parents being lied to, in what way does this graphic notification serve any purpose? They'll report it to the local branch of the UN? 

 

 

Your comment was "Are Russian soldiers parents and families being told their sons/daughters are alive? Winning the war?"

 

I didn't think you were ignorant enough to think Russians in general weren't being told they were winning the war. So I thought maybe you thought soldiers' families were the only ones who knew they weren't winning the war. Sending dead photos of soldiers to their parents is almost the only way Ukraine can communicate with Russians right now that can have any impact. Russians aren't seeing anything true about the war and they don't know that a lot of Russian soldiers have died. This has nothing to do with the UN, it's about Russians applying pressure on their government.

[Moiraine]

59 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

So y'all would have been fine with this tactic, and thankful for the notification, if you received such photos after the US invaded Iraq...or Afghanistan...or Nicaragua...or Vietnam...or, well you get the picture.

 

 

No to some, haven't thought about others. But if we attacked Canada or Mexico unprovoked with the goal of turning them into American states, I would completely understand the tactic. Nobody is claiming the soldiers' families should be fine or thankful. We're saying (or at least I am saying) it's morally okay for Ukraine to use it. It's also morally okay for Ukraine to kill every Russian invader. That doesn't mean those invaders don't have families and that those families wouldn't be upset by it. Judging whether an action is okay solely on whether it upsets someone doesn't make sense. There is more nuance to it than that.

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

So y'all would have been fine with this tactic, and thankful for the notification, if you received such photos after the US invaded Iraq...or Afghanistan...or Nicaragua...or Vietnam...or, well you get the picture.

 

Fine with it? No. Endorse the Ukrainians doing it? No.

 

Understand why it's being done? Yes.

[DevoHusker]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Fine with it? No. Endorse the Ukrainians doing it? No.

 

Understand why it's being done? Yes.

This is a good answer.

[JJ Husker]

3 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

From the link:

Ukraine has used face scans to identify 582 corpses and inform their families. But some worry the "psychological warfare" tactic could backfire: “If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric'"

 

https://t.co/B3Ztf2albb

 

2 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

So y'all would have been fine with this tactic, and thankful for the notification, if you received such photos after the US invaded Iraq...or Afghanistan...or Nicaragua...or Vietnam...or, well you get the picture.

I understand your concerns and think you have a viable opinion on this. But imo there is a pretty important difference between Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and your other examples. Russia is the aggressor. Putin has been lying to the Russian people and the rest of the world. Russia is suppressing factual information within his own country. In many/most cases the Russian soldier’s families and the soldiers themselves have been lied to. Any way you slice it, Russia’s activities in Ukraine are not remotely justified.

 

I get it. That would be a shocking, horrific email to receive. But at the end of the day, I think it’s better that the families receive the truth and know. That information simply isn’t being provided by Russia or Putin.

 

And I take a little issue with it being portrayed as psychological warfare by UKR. The psych warfare, as well as the whole of the war, is by Russia. Ukraine is simply doing what it can/has to do to survive. If you want to feel bad about it, fine, I get it, it sucks, but blame Putin for it and not UKR.

[Moiraine]

It may be hard to empathize. Most of us haven't tried to imagine what it would be like to potentially have your country/people/language wiped off the face of the earth. There were attempts in the Soviet Union and prior to that Russians to... discourage the use of the Ukrainian language. If Russia takes the whole of Ukraine over, they probably won't even let the region/republic be called anything related to Ukraine.
 

In the face of being wiped out your mind might change about which tactics are okay to use against an aggressor in your lands. And the statement in the posted article about how it would be considered barbaric if Russia did it, yes I agree. Context matters. They are the a$$h@!es invading another country and killing people there. They are also the superpower. So ya, rubbing salt in wounds against soldiers from a tiny country just trying to defend its sovereignty would be barbaric. They'd be sending these photos to mothers who've had their homes and lives destroyed and potentially had to flee the country, and are already 100% aware of what is happening because they're witnessing it first-hand, not warm and cozy as their kids murder people. It was a stupid attempt of a point.

[teachercd]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Fine with it? No. Endorse the Ukrainians doing it? No.

 

Understand why it's being done? Yes.

I think this is what normal people think.

 

 

 

 

[commando]

so...the official russian line is that ukraine did not bomb the ship....there was an accidental fire that got to the munitions.    so why is russian tv calling for WW3 and nuking kyiv?

 

 

[commando]

Russia is playing the victim card

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

19 minutes ago, commando said:

Russia is playing the victim card

 

 

What????

[Lorewarn]

10 hours ago, Born N Bled Red said:

Would parents believe it was their child without the pictures?

 

This is the rub for me. I was pretty unsettled when I heard this and didn't feel good about it. Then I realized that the photos could be and in my estimation are likely, the only feasible way of letting people know that their loved ones have died. If it's a claim, and you live inside the insulated Russian propaganda state, there's no way you'd believe it without proof.

 

Still not sure that I "support" it, but I think there is absolutely a justifiable reason for doing it.

 

 

9 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

So y'all would have been fine with this tactic, and thankful for the notification, if you received such photos after the US invaded Iraq...or Afghanistan...or Nicaragua...or Vietnam...or, well you get the picture.

 

Certainly not thankful, god no. But our invasions of all those places were evil, and I would not hold it against the governments or citizens of any of those places for letting us know that. 

[Scarlet]

Gonna need scuba divers to get facial recognition shots of these guys.  I wonder how many special forces were lost as there was talk of an invasion of Odessa lead by the Spetsnaz.