Biden's America

[Moiraine]

34 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I try to stay out of parent/child arguments at school.  But there is one story that still pisses me off.  I stayed out of it, but I regret that I did.

 

I was teaching a Small Engines class and had a rep from a diesel mechanic training program come talk to the class.  There was a freshman that was wide-eyed the whole time and you could just see on his face that he was excited about it and had a passion for it.  He stuck around and asked questions, couldn't thank me enough for letting him meet the guy, etc.  I was so proud that this kid might have found his thing!

 

The next day, the kid comes to class looking like his dog just died.  I asked him what was going on and he seemed down.  He proceeded to tell me that he got into a fight with his dad when he got home the night before and told him what he wanted to do.  The dad, more or less, told him he will go to a four-year school and focus on his business degree.  The kid was flat out depressed about it.

 

The worst part, the kid was good with tools.  He was a very hard worker.  But not the best "academic".  He probably went to get a degree.  But instead of starting debt free with programs available and making around $60,000 a year at the age of 20, he is probably a night manager at Casey's Gas Station making $40,000 a year with a s#!t ton of debt.

 

Still pisses me off!

 

 

And sometimes there is a flood of people getting business degrees and they are not always able to get applicable jobs. So I don't understand the argument for forcing your kid to get one if they aren't interested.

[Lorewarn]

3 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

I still don’t see how the rest of us, which included millions upon millions who never went to college, basically help pay the debts of those who took out loans for school.   It’s penalizing those who paid off their loans and or paid for school directly, didn’t go to college.   
 

Maybe we should allow the rest of us to take $10-20k off our mortgages or credit card debt if one has it? 

 

 

Everything tax money is used for is unfairly penalizing somebody for something.

 

That's what taxes are.

[funhusker]

4 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

And sometimes there is a flood of people getting business degrees and they are not always able to get applicable jobs. So I don't understand the argument for forcing your kid to get one if they aren't interested.

I tell my middle school students: "Business and sales can be great.  And the easiest thing to sell is a skill."

 

"A good electrician with a bit of business sense will ALWAYS make a better living than a good businessman with a bit of electrical experience."

[mrandyk]

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

I still don’t see how the rest of us, which included millions upon millions who never went to college, basically help pay the debts of those who took out loans for school.   It’s penalizing those who paid off their loans and or paid for school directly, didn’t go to college.   
 

Maybe we should allow the rest of us to take $10-20k off our mortgages or credit card debt if one has it? 

Education is a common good. That is why no one complains about paying for the public school district, even if they don't have kids. We all benefit from an educated population.

 

Take it a step further. Do you want to visit a doctor or hire a lawyer whose education ended when they were 18? Seems like we'd be better off if we, as a country, decided that we need trained professionals in place. Lord knows that K-12 isn't setting anyone up for a career. Why would we make it crippling expensive for someone to become a professional in a chosen field?

 

Or, you can close your eyes, and shout that we shouldn't be paying for a fire department when your house has never burnt down. The cost here is trivial compared to so many other acts or discretionary budget items from the past 20 years. It's befuddling why you are upset about the one expenditure that gave the little guy a break.

 

Seems like you are following the party line and spouting anything to refute a clear victory for the American people.

[Archy1221]

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

10 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Education is a common good. That is why no one complains about paying for the public school district, even if they don't have kids. We all benefit from an educated population.

Education is a common good, and those people you were talking about got the benefit paid for when they went through school. 
 

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

 

Take it a step further. Do you want to visit a doctor or hire a lawyer whose education ended when they were 18?

That makes nonsense when speaking about paying for their school debt.  Do you want a truck driver to pay for a lawyers post grad educational debt?  take it step further, do you want to pay for their school debt?

 

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

Seems like we'd be better off if we, as a country, decided that we need trained professionals in place.

We have them currently.  
 

 

[Archy1221]

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

Why would we make it crippling expensive for someone to become a professional in a chosen field?

This is a different argument than giving people up to $10,000 in debt forgiveness with no strings attached.  
 

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

Or, you can close your eyes, and shout that we shouldn't be paying for a fire department when your house has never burnt down.

I could also open my eyes and realize their is a chance my house, or place of business may burn someday.   Hopefully not though!!

 

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

The cost here is trivial compared to so many other acts or discretionary budget items from the past 20 years. It's befuddling why you are upset about the one expenditure that gave the little guy a break.

Cost being trivial to other budget items has nothing to do with the argument.  By that standard, why not give everyone  making under $250K $10,000 in car loan relief?   Or $10,000 in credit card relief? 

 

As far as the little guy goes, most of the “little guys” won’t even be accessing this gift.  A bit over 60% of this gift will go to people classified as rich or upper middle class.  

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

Seems like you are following the party line and spouting anything to refute a clear victory for the American people.

Not even close.  
 

 

[teachercd]

5 hours ago, mrandyk said:

Education is a common good. That is why no one complains about paying for the public school district, even if they don't have kids. We all benefit from an educated population.

 

Take it a step further. Do you want to visit a doctor or hire a lawyer whose education ended when they were 18? Seems like we'd be better off if we, as a country, decided that we need trained professionals in place. Lord knows that K-12 isn't setting anyone up for a career. Why would we make it crippling expensive for someone to become a professional in a chosen field?

 

Or, you can close your eyes, and shout that we shouldn't be paying for a fire department when your house has never burnt down. The cost here is trivial compared to so many other acts or discretionary budget items from the past 20 years. It's befuddling why you are upset about the one expenditure that gave the little guy a break.

 

Seems like you are following the party line and spouting anything to refute a clear victory for the American people.

Come on, that just is not true.  People b!^@h about that all the time.

 

And, we should not pay what we pay for the fire department but everyone knows that.

[Archy1221]

7 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Everything tax money is used for is unfairly penalizing somebody for something.

 

That's what taxes are.

 Not necessarily, and why is Joe only picking one form of debt to pay off, and using Covid-19 as the legal reason seems quite sketchy.   

[funhusker]

10 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 Not necessarily, and why is Joe only picking one form of debt to pay off, and using Covid-19 as the legal reason seems quite sketchy.   

Archy, I agree with you on all of this.  

 

And not to change the subject too much, but it's why its so infuriating to see the GOP turn into the disgusting clownshow they are becoming.

 

I'd much rather give out some college loan forgiveness than vote for a person that is bats#!t crazy.

 

The GOP needs a reset, and it's up to us "registered" Republicans to call out the stupid.

[Archy1221]

8 hours ago, funhusker said:

I tell my middle school students: "Business and sales can be great.  And the easiest thing to sell is a skill."

 

"A good electrician with a bit of business sense will ALWAYS make a better living than a good businessman with a bit of electrical experience."

The HS my freshman goes to a HS that has a program to where a student can get their HS Diploma, and a trade certificate in I think 15-20 different areas in the four years of school.   
 

If a student is really motivated for college, they also implemented this plan that gets a student an associates degree by the time they graduate high school, thus helping immensely with cost of college.   
 

https://www.bluevalleyk12.org/Page/35992

[suh_fan93]

 

 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

12 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

I still don’t see how the rest of us, which included millions upon millions who never went to college, basically help pay the debts of those who took out loans for school.   It’s penalizing those who paid off their loans and or paid for school directly, didn’t go to college.   
 

Maybe we should allow the rest of us to take $10-20k off our mortgages or credit card debt if one has it? 

I'm not for blanket college debt relief for everyone.  I'm also not for free college for everyone.  I could get behind free community college in some fashion.  Maybe it's free as long as someone keeps a certain grade point average..etc.  But, at some point, the student needs to have some skin in the game.  We provide free public education through HS.  I believe, if they want to go on, they should help pay for it.

 

My comment you quoted was mostly about reducing the cost of college.  It's absolutely asinine how much it's increased in cost.  I did quite a bit of research on it one time because I was in a group of business people that the governor wanted input from on education in the state.  I pointed out how much more expensive it is for students now compared to when I went to school and how much that increased compared to inflation.  I then pointed out how little the state funds the university now compared to back then.  It's pretty pathetic. 

 

That's what I think needs fixed.  State Universities are a huge asset to the entire state, no matter if you go to them or not.  We have a land grant University that the state has continually cut funding for as a percentage of what it costs.

 

I completely agree that more students should be looking at community colleges.  Or, even smaller state schools.  My oldest daughter went to Wayne State and her cost was so much cheaper than my other two that went to UNL, she received a very good education with much more personal contact with professors...etc.

 

Anyway, I think we all agree that something needs to be done.  It's just a matter of getting the normal political party squabbles out of it and actually think about the problem and fix it. 

[knapplc]

Funny thing about that $2 trillion in tax cuts for the rich and corporations - less ink was spilled here complaining about that than about student loan debt, but this benefits regular Americans far more than tax cuts for the wealthy. 

 

 

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Funny thing about that $2 trillion in tax cuts for the rich and corporations - less ink was spilled here complaining about that than about student loan debt, but this benefits regular Americans far more than tax cuts for the wealthy. 

 

 

The other funny thing about the income tax cuts that all tax paying Americans got was it’s giving people back their own money they earned.   Kinda different than making others repay a loan that someone else took out 

[Archy1221]

23 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm not for blanket college debt relief for everyone.  I'm also not for free college for everyone.  I could get behind free community college in some fashion.  Maybe it's free as long as someone keeps a certain grade point average..etc.  But, at some point, the student needs to have some skin in the game.  We provide free public education through HS.  I believe, if they want to go on, they should help pay for it.

 

My comment you quoted was mostly about reducing the cost of college.  It's absolutely asinine how much it's increased in cost.  I did quite a bit of research on it one time because I was in a group of business people that the governor wanted input from on education in the state.  I pointed out how much more expensive it is for students now compared to when I went to school and how much that increased compared to inflation.  I then pointed out how little the state funds the university now compared to back then.  It's pretty pathetic. 

 

That's what I think needs fixed.  State Universities are a huge asset to the entire state, no matter if you go to them or not.  We have a land grant University that the state has continually cut funding for as a percentage of what it costs.

 

I completely agree that more students should be looking at community colleges.  Or, even smaller state schools.  My oldest daughter went to Wayne State and her cost was so much cheaper than my other two that went to UNL, she received a very good education with much more personal contact with professors...etc.

 

Anyway, I think we all agree that something needs to be done.  It's just a matter of getting the normal political party squabbles out of it and actually think about the problem and fix it. 

Glad you got involved and agree with your sentiment.  
 

One thing that I have thought about and was interested in getting your perspective and if it was brought up during your discussion group….

 

Why not have the institutions be responsible for the loan process and backing the loans with the Fed Gov as a backstop for some overall financial catastrophe.  Let these institutions have the skin in the game for the money they are getting and the product they are promoting.