The Israel-Hamas War

[commando]

now Yemen has followed their rebels and declared war on isreal.   

[Decked]

1 hour ago, commando said:

now Yemen has followed their rebels and declared war on isreal.   

Can’t even feed their own citizens and they have enough money to fund more rockets. Priorities. 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Scarlet]

7 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

 

Who knew Netanyahu would go full scorched earth?  Hamas needs to be eliminated no question.  How that is accomplished is above anyone's pay grade here but bombing a refugee camp and then shrugging your shoulders and saying. "This is the tragedy of war" isn't going to help Netanyahu or the Israeli cause.  

 

 

[suh_fan93]

 

[commando]

1 minute ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

how is Israel suppose to negotiate with these guys?   their constitution calls for the destruction of Israel.   i don't like the methods isreal has to use to fight these people.....but does Israel really have a choice given the Hamas goals of Israeli annihilation and their tactics of using the palestinian people as human shields?

[Lorewarn]

54 minutes ago, commando said:

how is Israel suppose to negotiate with these guys?   their constitution calls for the destruction of Israel.   i don't like the methods isreal has to use to fight these people.....but does Israel really have a choice given the Hamas goals of Israeli annihilation and their tactics of using the palestinian people as human shields?

 

 

There is no negotiating with Hamas, and there is also no easy way out of this scenario. I don't know what the best way out of it is now, but the current plan is terrible and aimless. Israel's indiscriminate boot-on-the-neck policy is obviously not conducive towards their own self-interest in peace long term.

 

Like let's say the IDF kills every single militant member of Hamas today, and then leave, but still continues to control borders, movement, utilities, imports/exports and infrastructure of the place. Is there any scenario where a new bloodthirsty hate-filled terrorist ideology pops right back up amongst members of the people still there who lost entire families? There's an entire new generation of hatred towards Israel already being born in front of our very eyes.

[Archy1221]

19 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

Like let's say the IDF kills every single militant member of Hamas today, and then leave, but still continues to control borders, movement, utilities, imports/exports and infrastructure of the place.

Another option would be for Israel to kill every single member of Hamas and then Gaza elects a respectable government that values cooperation instead of destruction and those blockades go away like before, which Israel already said they would agree to.  
 

 

[Lorewarn]

16 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Another option would be for Israel to kill every single member of Hamas and then Gaza elects a respectable government that values cooperation instead of destruction and those blockades go away like before, which Israel already said they would agree to.  

 

 

Oh they said they'd agree? That's good, we should definitely take them at their word. No need to look at history to see whether they're completely full of s#!t or not. Only one major problem here being that many in power in Israel have zero actual interest in a two party system or any legitimate standing of an autonomous Palestine.

 

Israel finding it expedient to make moves to prop up and empower the group that would then later lead to a horrific horror attack against them is not the only parallel we can draw between the current scenario and the U.S. leading up to and after 9/11.

[DevoHusker]

33 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Oh they said they'd agree? That's good, we should definitely take them at their word. No need to look at history to see whether they're completely full of s#!t or not. Only one major problem here being that many in power in Israel have zero actual interest in a two party system or any legitimate standing of an autonomous Palestine.

 

Israel finding it expedient to make moves to prop up and empower the group that would then later lead to a horrific horror attack against them is not the only parallel we can draw between the current scenario and the U.S. leading up to and after 9/11.

 

The time frame from 2000-2005 would beg to differ. Agreement in place, Hamas takes over in 2006 and kicks out PLO, blockade partially instituted in 2007.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/timeline-long-history-israeli-palestinian-conflict/story?id=103875134

 

A second Intifada (2000) from Palestinian forces, which ended in 2005, led to the Palestinian people's autonomous control of the West Bank and Gaza.

In 2005, Israel disengaged from the Gaza Strip, uprooting its settlements in the region.

The following year, Hamas won an election to control the Gaza Strip, kicking out representatives of the PLO. The armed takeover of Gaza by Hamas in 2007 prompted Israel to impose a blockade on Gaza.

 

Israel imposes blockade; Following the armed takeover, the surrounding countries of Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade on the Gaza Strip which greatly restricts the movement of people and goods into and out of the area.

[Lorewarn]

27 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

The time frame from 2000-2005 would beg to differ. Agreement in place, Hamas takes over in 2006 and kicks out PLO, blockade partially instituted in 2007.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/timeline-long-history-israeli-palestinian-conflict/story?id=103875134

 

A second Intifada (2000) from Palestinian forces, which ended in 2005, led to the Palestinian people's autonomous control of the West Bank and Gaza.

In 2005, Israel disengaged from the Gaza Strip, uprooting its settlements in the region.

The following year, Hamas won an election to control the Gaza Strip, kicking out representatives of the PLO. The armed takeover of Gaza by Hamas in 2007 prompted Israel to impose a blockade on Gaza.

 

Israel imposes blockade; Following the armed takeover, the surrounding countries of Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade on the Gaza Strip which greatly restricts the movement of people and goods into and out of the area.

 

 

 

In 2005 Israel was already well into their disengagement plan under then PM Ariel Sharon, with the useage of Hamas as a tool to weaken the PLO as a key part of that strategy. 

 

From the prime minister's main legal advisor in 2004:

 

"The meaning of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the political process... When you freeze a political process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion on the issues of refugees, borders and Jerusalem... basically this whole package called the Palestinian state has dropped off the agenda for an indefinite period of time . The program provides the amount of formaldehyde required so that there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Oh they said they'd agree? That's good, we should definitely take them at their word. No need to look at history to see whether they're completely full of s#!t or not. Only one major problem here being that many in power in Israel have zero actual interest in a two party system or any legitimate standing of an autonomous Palestine.

 

Israel finding it expedient to make moves to prop up and empower the group that would then later lead to a horrific horror attack against them is not the only parallel we can draw between the current scenario and the U.S. leading up to and after 9/11.

Israel isn’t alone with the blockade and if they didn’t agree to end the blockade after getting what they wanted, Hamas to no longer be in power and for Israel to be recognized by, then they lose the support of US, EU, towards the blockade. 

[nic]

6 hours ago, commando said:

how is Israel suppose to negotiate with these guys?   their constitution calls for the destruction of Israel.   i don't like the methods isreal has to use to fight these people.....but does Israel really have a choice given the Hamas goals of Israeli annihilation and their tactics of using the palestinian people as human shields?

It's not just Hamas that has this goal. Iran, Syria, Hezbola, to name a few, and my empoyee from Israel mentioned Qatar the other day which shocked me a bit. Not sure why they care. 

[nic]

4 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Oh they said they'd agree? That's good, we should definitely take them at their word. No need to look at history to see whether they're completely full of s#!t or not. Only one major problem here being that many in power in Israel have zero actual interest in a two party system or any legitimate standing of an autonomous Palestine.

 

Israel finding it expedient to make moves to prop up and empower the group that would then later lead to a horrific horror attack against them is not the only parallel we can draw between the current scenario and the U.S. leading up to and after 9/11.

How many of these fights did Israel start, going back to 1948 when the British mandate ended and the UN divided this land up? Seems like everytime someone picks a fight, Israel wins and takes more land as a result.  They took the Golan Heights for security. They built walls to protect against suicide bombers. That actually worked. Then they had to build the Iron dome for the rockets. Now that got overwhelmed. There are Israeli Arabs with full rights in Israel. I suspect they could get along peacefully if everyone around them wasn't trying to annihilate them.

[Scarlet]

Does anyone vet these speeches?